Author Topic: My father's mysterious war service in the Royal Navy  (Read 1480 times)

Offline genjen

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My father's mysterious war service in the Royal Navy
« on: Monday 20 May 19 15:55 BST (UK) »
My father joined the Royal Navy in the early 1940s. He didn't have to join up at all as he had been offered a place at Edinburgh University and would have been allowed to carry on with his academic career had he chosen to do so. But his younger brother had joined the Merchant Navy at the age of fifteen and had subsequently been killed when his ship was blown up in the mouth of the Thames and dad felt too guilty to opt out of the war in favour of a university education.

We know that he trained in communications and that he turned down the chance of an officer's commission as he wanted to stay with what he would have called "the ordinary blokes". He rarely spoke of his war service and we know he had signed the Official Secrets Act ( do all service people do that?) He was fluent in German, which might have some bearing on my question.

One day, in the late 1970s as he and my mum were travelling on a holiday trip, he pointed vaguely out of the car window and said "I worked over there during the war" and then left it at that. "Over there" was Bletchley Park. But he was in the navy - what on earth was he doing at Bletchley, we all wondered.
In 1945, he was in the Netherlands. We know this because of the gift ( a pair of tiny wooden clogs) which he brought back for his mother, a Dutch dictionary which lived on our bookshelf all through my childhood and a mysterious German document, dated May 1945, which we had never seen until my sister unearthed it in dad's belongings, quite recently, some thirty-seven years after he died. We had it translated by a German friend this weekend and it turns out to be a transfer paper for a German serviceman, from a hospital in Den Haag to a hospital closer to where he lived in Germany.

So, the questions are - What on earth was my dad, a Royal Navy rating ( so we believe), doing at, or very close to, Bletchley Park; why would he have been in The Hague in 1945, before the end of the war and how did he come to be in possession of a German soldier's transfer document ( surely that ought to have gone to the new hospital with the patient?).

I am sending for his war service record but I know from my partner's father's documents that we will only be given the names and dates of the "ships" he was on, with no detail as to where, or why.

Are there any naval WW2 historians who might be able to help us to fathom this out? We do know that we will probably never answer the question fully but any ideas are welcome.

Many thanks,

Jen
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Offline greenrig

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Re: My father's mysterious war service in the Royal Navy
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 22 May 19 15:29 BST (UK) »
Certainly a Navy man, with fluent German, and trained in Communications might have been a candidate for Station X in Bletchley. As well as breaking the codes, they had people who could, at the first level, interpret the information to determine it's purpose and priority in the War effort.  Deciphered messages were then sent on to Admiralty for further interpretation and action, if appropriate.  Also, much of the administration and clerical work at Bletchley Park was done by WRENS - so Navy hierarchy would have been a major element of the running of the site.  His Navy records should be of interest, but may be written in such opaque terms as to be difficult to interpret.
NEILSON - Erskine/Bishopton, Renfrewshire and Glasgow
BROWN - Hamilton, Lanarkshire
CAIRNS - Hamilton, Lanarkshire
FINDLAY - Kirriemuir area, Forfarshire/Angus
PORTER - Tobermore, Derry, Ireland

Offline genjen

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Re: My father's mysterious war service in the Royal Navy
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 22 May 19 19:13 BST (UK) »
  His Navy records should be of interest, but may be written in such opaque terms as to be difficult to interpret.

That's exactly what I am expecting! But thank you for your reply. It goes some way to reassuring me that we are not simply over-romanticising dad's part in the war.  :)

I look forward to seeing what his records do tell me!
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

ESS: Howe French Cant Annis Noakes Turner Marshall Makerow Duck Spurden Harmony
SCT: Howe Shaw Raitt Milne Forsyth Birnie Crichton Duncan McBeath Daniel Hay Robertson Jaffrey Smith McDonald Alexander Craighead
NRY: Bushby Smith Bland Iley Cunion Kendrew Thornbury Favell Lonsdale Crossland Rudd Pratt Gibson
WES; Dickenson Jackson Ewbank Waller
STS: White
SRY: Knight
DUR: Smith Littlefair
HAM: Williams Grose Lush Venson

Offline genjen

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Re: My father's mysterious war service in the Royal Navy
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 30 May 19 17:27 BST (UK) »
Well, I have the answer to why he was in Holland. He was on board HMS St. Tudno, based at Ijmuiden, during the minesweeping operations in the Scheldt.

http://www.wildfire3.com/sweeping-the-scheldt.html

Though why he has the German soldier's hospital transfer note remains a mystery. ???
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

ESS: Howe French Cant Annis Noakes Turner Marshall Makerow Duck Spurden Harmony
SCT: Howe Shaw Raitt Milne Forsyth Birnie Crichton Duncan McBeath Daniel Hay Robertson Jaffrey Smith McDonald Alexander Craighead
NRY: Bushby Smith Bland Iley Cunion Kendrew Thornbury Favell Lonsdale Crossland Rudd Pratt Gibson
WES; Dickenson Jackson Ewbank Waller
STS: White
SRY: Knight
DUR: Smith Littlefair
HAM: Williams Grose Lush Venson


Offline ShaunJ

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Re: My father's mysterious war service in the Royal Navy
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 30 May 19 17:34 BST (UK) »
After the war the St Tudno was returned to its civilian owners. It was used for excursions from Liverpool to Llandudno and the Menai Bridge. I sailed on it to Llandudno as a child, circa 1960.
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Offline genjen

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Re: My father's mysterious war service in the Royal Navy
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 30 May 19 17:36 BST (UK) »
After the war the St Tudno was returned to its civilian owners. It was used for excursions from Liverpool to Llandudno and the Menai Bridge. I sailed on it to Llandudno as a child, circa 1960.

Wow! You walked in my father's footsteps! :D :D
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

ESS: Howe French Cant Annis Noakes Turner Marshall Makerow Duck Spurden Harmony
SCT: Howe Shaw Raitt Milne Forsyth Birnie Crichton Duncan McBeath Daniel Hay Robertson Jaffrey Smith McDonald Alexander Craighead
NRY: Bushby Smith Bland Iley Cunion Kendrew Thornbury Favell Lonsdale Crossland Rudd Pratt Gibson
WES; Dickenson Jackson Ewbank Waller
STS: White
SRY: Knight
DUR: Smith Littlefair
HAM: Williams Grose Lush Venson

Offline josey

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Re: My father's mysterious war service in the Royal Navy
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 30 May 19 17:49 BST (UK) »
Though why he has the German soldier's hospital transfer note remains a mystery. ???
Perhaps trace the German soldier - you have his place of residence? Maybe post his name on the Germany board here to see if anyone knows of any descendants?
Seeking: RC baptism Philip Murray Feb ish 1814 ? nr Chatham Kent.
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, WILLIAMS,DUNEVAN Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Halifax & Pictou: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON

Offline genjen

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Re: My father's mysterious war service in the Royal Navy
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 30 May 19 18:00 BST (UK) »

Perhaps trace the German soldier - you have his place of residence? Maybe post his name on the Germany board here to see if anyone knows of any descendants?

My sister knows someone whose twin town is very close to where the soldier's home, so she is on the case!
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

ESS: Howe French Cant Annis Noakes Turner Marshall Makerow Duck Spurden Harmony
SCT: Howe Shaw Raitt Milne Forsyth Birnie Crichton Duncan McBeath Daniel Hay Robertson Jaffrey Smith McDonald Alexander Craighead
NRY: Bushby Smith Bland Iley Cunion Kendrew Thornbury Favell Lonsdale Crossland Rudd Pratt Gibson
WES; Dickenson Jackson Ewbank Waller
STS: White
SRY: Knight
DUR: Smith Littlefair
HAM: Williams Grose Lush Venson

Offline Mart 'n' Al

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Re: My father's mysterious war service in the Royal Navy
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 30 May 19 18:03 BST (UK) »
I'm happy to be corrected on this, but we are all subject to the Official Secrets Act whether we have signed it or not.

Martin