Author Topic: Joseph and Jane Smith, Charlesworth, Derbyshire.  (Read 2394 times)

Offline Althea7

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Joseph and Jane Smith, Charlesworth, Derbyshire.
« on: Saturday 25 May 19 16:20 BST (UK) »
The last trace I have of this family is in Charlesworth, Derbyshire.  I have the birth certificate of their son, also called Joseph Smith, born 10th October 1858 in Charlesworth, Derbyshire, at Higher Mill Lane.  Father:  Joseph Smith, Cotton Spinner and mother Jane Smith, formerly Greenwood.

He was baptised on 24th April 1859 in Charlesworth, Derbyshire, parents Joseph and Jane Smith.

On the 1861 census Joseph, the son, is age 2, living in Charlesworth, Derbyshire with his grandmother Fanny Greenwood, a widow, his aunt Mary, and Mary's son Henry Greenwood.

His mother Jane Greenwood was born July 1827 in Heptonstall, baptised 27th August 1827, Heptonstall.  Her baptism record says she is seven weeks old at the time of her baptism, and gives abode as Manchester, even though the baptism takes place in Heptonstall.  Her parents are Fanny and Henry Greenwood.

In 1841, Jane is living in Silk Street, Manchester, with her parents Henry and Fanny, and siblings.

Jane's marriage to Joseph Smith 2nd February 1851 at Manchester Cathedral.  Witnesses are Mary Greenwood and Benjamin Smith.  Both Jane and Joseph are living at 40 Beswick Street, Manchester, which is where Jane's mother Fanny and sister Mary are living on the 1851 census.  Jane's father, Henry Greenwood, Overlooker (marriage document fails to note that he is deceased in 1851).

Joseph Smith, the father, born 1822 Heaton Norris, Lancashire.  Birth place also given as Manchester on other documents.

The 1851 census shows Jane as wife, age 22, born Todmorden, with husband Joseph Smith age 30, born Stockport, Cheshire, and his son William Smith age 8, born Stockport, Cheshire.  Jane is a Cotton Bobbin Frame Tenter, and Joseph is a Cotton Spinner (this occupation same as on son Joseph's birth certificate).  Abode:  Tonge Street, Manchester.

After the 1858 birth of son Joseph, and his mention on the 1861 census living with his grandmother Fanny in Charlesworth, I can find nothing about this family.  Ancestry is giving hints about a Jane Rose, but I can't find any death record for her husband Joseph Smith.

Offline Ladyhawk

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Re: Joseph and Jane Smith, Charlesworth, Derbyshire.
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 25 May 19 16:49 BST (UK) »
Not the correct place of birth - is this a possibility?

Joseph Smith
Pension Admission or Examination Age:   44
Birth Year:   abt 1858
Birth Place:   Brailsford, Derby
Pension Admission or Examination Date:   23 Oct 1902
Regiment:   Grenadier Guards
Rank:   Sargeant
Regimental Number:   7503

Joseph Smith
Enlistment Age:   23
Birth Date:   abt 1858
Birth Place:   Brailsford, Derby
Enlistment Year:   1881
Regiment:   Roy Laner Regt
Regimental Number:   R. Lanc. R. 185
Attestation Paper:   Yes
Next of kin given as Brother William Smith Station St Nottingham but it has a line drawn through

These are on Anc*y on Fold3 -  currently free access to these records for Memorial Day until Tuesday
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Althea7

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Re: Joseph and Jane Smith, Charlesworth, Derbyshire.
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 25 May 19 16:59 BST (UK) »
I just looked up Brailsford, Derbyshire, and it is way the other side of Derbyshire, south and near Derby.

A lot of this family settled around the Charlesworth, Glossop, Mottram in Longendale area.  Also I actually have Joseph's birth certificate, and it states that he was born in Charlesworth, which is a long way from Brailsford.  It could be him, but I can't think of an explanation why he would give such a different place of birth.

I thought Greenwood was a difficult name to research in West Yorkshire, though gets easier in Manchester, but Smith is a difficult name to research anywhere.

Offline Comberton

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Re: Joseph and Jane Smith, Charlesworth, Derbyshire.
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 25 May 19 16:59 BST (UK) »
Joseph junior seems to be listed twice in 1861 as he is with his family in Stockport as well

piece 2556 folio 18 page 8

Two sisters Sarah 5 & Jane 8 months both mmn Greenwood


Offline Althea7

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Re: Joseph and Jane Smith, Charlesworth, Derbyshire.
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 25 May 19 17:02 BST (UK) »
Joseph junior seems to be listed twice in 1861 as he is with his family in Stockport as well

piece 2556 folio 18 page 8

Two sisters Sarah 5 & Jane 8 months both mmn Greenwood

Thanks, I will see if I can find those sisters on the GRO. I did think I saw Joseph listed twice in 1861.

Offline Ladyhawk

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Re: Joseph and Jane Smith, Charlesworth, Derbyshire.
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 25 May 19 17:03 BST (UK) »
Is this the family in 1861 Piece:   2556 Folio: 18 Page Number:   8

Joseph Smith   39 Heaton Norris Lancashire occ Self acting M???O Cotton Spinner
Jane Smith   29 Manchester occ Card Worn Hand
Sarah Smith   5   Beswick
Jane Smith   8 mths Marple Cheshire
Joseph Smith   2  Charlesworth Derbyshire
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Offline Althea7

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Re: Joseph and Jane Smith, Charlesworth, Derbyshire.
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 25 May 19 17:03 BST (UK) »
Is this the family in 1861 Piece:   2556 Folio: 18 Page Number:   8

Joseph Smith   39 Heaton Norris Lancashire occ Self acting M???O Cotton Spinner
Jane Smith   29 Manchester occ Card Worn Hand
Sarah Smith   5   Beswick
Jane Smith   8 mths Marple Cheshire
Joseph Smith   2  Charlesworth Derbyshire

That looks right, yes.

Offline Ladyhawk

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Re: Joseph and Jane Smith, Charlesworth, Derbyshire.
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 25 May 19 17:09 BST (UK) »
Sarah Smith
Birth 26 May 1855
Baptism 10 Jun 1855
Parish:   Manchester, St Mary, St Denys and St George
Father Joseph Smith occ spinner
Mother  Jane  abode Manchester

SMITH, SARAH    mmm GREENWOOD 
 1855  J Quarter in MANCHESTER  Volume 08D  Page 318

added

SMITH, JANE    mmm   GREENWOOD 
1860  S Quarter in STOCKPORT  Volume 08A  Page 2
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Offline Althea7

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Re: Joseph and Jane Smith, Charlesworth, Derbyshire.
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 25 May 19 17:31 BST (UK) »
Sarah Smith
Birth 26 May 1855
Baptism 10 Jun 1855
Parish:   Manchester, St Mary, St Denys and St George
Father Joseph Smith occ spinner
Mother  Jane  abode Manchester

SMITH, SARAH    mmm GREENWOOD 
 1855  J Quarter in MANCHESTER  Volume 08D  Page 318

added

SMITH, JANE    mmm   GREENWOOD 
1860  S Quarter in STOCKPORT  Volume 08A  Page 2

Thanks.  It looks as though the family were in Stockport around 1860/1861.  This was where Joseph the father was born.  Jane's family were in Charlesworth.