William Davies born Llanrhaeadr ym Mochnant

[Rabbit5479]

Seeking clues as to how find the birth record of William Davies born 25/12/1882 (according to his Military records) in Llanrhaeadr/Denbigh.
His marriage cert (Oswestry 1908) indicates the date isn't wrong, same for 1911 Census. I'm assuming registration would probably have been in Mar Q 1883.
His father is known as John but deceased as of the marriage, occupation Carrier or maybe Currier but that may be my misreading.
By the time of his marriage he is a Police Constable in Vroncysyltte and still so in 1911. Family recollection is that he returned to LYM Police Station later in life. Come 1939 he is a retired Police Sergeant and a County Court Bailiff living in Oswestry where the family have been based for many years.
The last record is 1945, his death thereafter is unknown but before his wife in 1971.
This is a long-time brick wall for me so any suggestions as where and how to look further will be appreciated. As I'm in Oz any site visits will have to wait until I've accumulated sufficient sensible clues 
Thanks

[Kay99]

Welcome to RootsChat 

I think in 1939 he  has the middle name of Thomas.   You don't mention his location in 1901 so I wonder if this is him listed as a nephew  living in Llanrhaeadr

Robert Hughes    55  b Flint Holywell Farmer
Elizabeth Hughes 52 b Flint Mold
William Thomas Davies 18  Nephew b  Llanrhaeadr
Margret Ellen Hughes    15 Daughter b Llanrhaeadr

Kay

[Rabbit5479]

Thank you Kay99. The Hughes' have come up before but lacking any real connection I've put them in a rather large pot of maybe's. The Thomas middle name only appears in the 1939 Register as a later amendment and I don't know if I should believe it or not. Maybe that's discussed elsewhere on another forum? Meanwhile I'll pursue your suggestion.

[Kay99]

I have been looking for the Hughes family I posted in 1901 pre this date and am having problems finding them - although the 1911 census lists them as married 40 yrs

If William Davies was born in Llanrhaeadr  in 1882/3 then he should have been registered in the Llanfyllin Reg District but I can't see the birth of a William Davies that would fit so maybe he  was registered under another surname ??

Kay

[Rabbit5479]

Oh no, not an unknown surname!  That really is a curved ball so for the moment I'll persist with 'Davies'. However can you tell me how Llanfyllin records can be accessed, please? William was a Methodist so may not be in Church records.

Searching the Hughes' daughter's birth on FreeBMD I get just one entry for Margaret Ellen Hughes b 1866 which on GRO shows mother nee Roberts. Back to FreeBMB I get no marriage for Flintshire but 6 for Denbighshire - I favour the Ruthin one but will need to track them all.

Back with the 1891 census still no conclusion, another day to look at that. End of day here. Cheers

[Kay99]

The Llanfyllin Registration District covers a number of parishes including Llanrhaeadr - as this link shows https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/llanfyllin.html   Civil registration of births can be searched for on FreeBMD .     Baptism records for individual parishes in Denbighshire are on FindMyPast but I can't see your William 

I also found the birth of Margaret Ellen Hughes in 1886 on FreBMD but still can't find her or her family in 1891 

Kay

[osprey]

the 1901 census has the family in Ruthin Rural district, so is that Llanrhaeadr in Kinmerch rather than ym Mochnant on the Montgomeryshire boundary?

https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/DEN/LlanrhaeadrNghinmeirch

In which case, bmds would be registered at Ruthin rather than Llanfyllin. Possible birth reg for Margaret Ellin Hughes jun qtr 1886 Ruthin vol 11b pg 329 mmn Davies

Same family in 1881?
Prion Bach, Llanrhaiadr RG11/5525 folio 33 pg 9
Robert Hughes head mar 35 ag lab b. Llanrhaiadr
Elizabeth wife 34 b. Flint
Sarah Elizabeth dau 7 b. Llanrhaiadr - birth reg junqtr 1873 Ruthin vol 11b pg 363 mmn Davies

http://photos.geni.com/p13/d9/5b/33/e6/5344483a9b106c72/north_wales_300_original.jpg

1891 Pen y coed, Llanrhaiadr in Kinmerch RG12/4624 folio 33 pg 7
Robert Hughes head mar 41 farmer b. Holywell?
Elizabeth wife 40 b. Mold
Sarah E dau 17
Margaret E dau 4
William F? Davies nephew 8
children all born Llanrhaiadr

[Kay99]

Very well found Osprey - I should have looked  at the 1901 more closely 

Kay

[osprey]

still no obvious birth record for William though. There is one on the GRO index for
William Julian Davies march qtr 1883 Ruthin vol 11b pg 323 mmn -
North Wales BMD has the birth in subdistrict of Llanrhaeadr yng Nghinmeirch as William J Davies

If he was born as Davies but illegitimate, he could be the son of a sister of Elizabeth. Without her marriage (jun qtr 1872 Ruthin, civil marriage so no church record), finding her family is guesswork but there is this possible in Mold in 1851
Glanrafon, Mold HO107/2501 folio 546 pg 34
John Davies head mar 40 coal & water carrier b. Liverpool
Catherine wife 36 b. Flintshire, Ysceifiog
Sarah dau 11
Anne dau 7
Mary dau 5
Elizabeth dau 3
Rachel dau 1
children all born Mold

William might have borrowed his grandfather's details to cover up a blank on his marriage cert, he wouldn't be the first.



Ignore this theory, just found the marriage notice for this Elizabeth to John Roberts n 1869