The Mystery of Martha Palin (b 23/4/1882 Minshull Vernon, Cheshire)

[Chris Koons]

I hope someone can help me straighten out my G-Grandmother!
Her name was Martha Ellen Palin & G-Grandfather’s name was Herbert Sant
On the 1939 Register, Martha gives her DOB as 23/4/82 & Herbert gives his as 7/4/78. This register is definitely the right people as it also lists my great-uncle John with his twin & their correct birthday, who I knew to be a twin (according to my dad).
Going backwards, the problems begin with the marriage certificate. The only marriage certificate I can turn up for Herbert Sant & Martha is dated 4/4/1903, which gives Martha’s surname as Palin , her father’s name as Charles & makes sense since their 1st child, my Grandpa, Charles William Sant was born March 1904, however the marriage document lists Herbert’s father as George, when I know it was William (per my dad), so not the right document?
I can also find no trace of Martha with a DOB of 1882, anywhere in cheshirebmd, ancestry, or family search. Initially, I thought she was the illegitimate daughter of Agnes Palin, but that Martha was baptized in 1880, 2 years before she claimed she was born, which would be a neat trick.
Help! My head hurts!

[SmallTownGirl]

There's a birth registered in Q3 1882 in Nantwich of a Martha Ellen Palin, mother's maiden name Whitlow. Is that her?

And a marriage in Q4 1877, also in Nantwich between a Charles Palin and an Alice Whitlow.

STG

[BumbleB]

Welcome to Rootschat 

I assume this is the family, living in Stanthorne in the 1911 census.

Herbert aged 33, born Middlewich
Martha Ellen, aged 29 born Minsull Vernon - married 8 years, 2 children
Charles William, 7, born Stanthorne
Fred, 4, born Stanthorne

Both children have mother's maiden name of Palin (GRO)

[rosie99]

Welcome to rootschat

The 1903 marriage certificate gives Martha's age as 20 which would tie in with this birth
Birth Sep qtr 1882 
Palin    Martha Ellen    Mothers maiden surname Whitlow   
Nantwich    8a   359

Parents marriage
Marriages Dec qtr 1877 
Palin    Charles       
Whitlow Alice       
Northwich   reg district 8a   393

[Chris Koons]

Welcome to Rootschat 

I assume this is the family, living in Stanthorne in the 1911 census.

Herbert aged 33, born Middlewich
Martha Ellen, aged 29 born Minsull Vernon - married 8 years, 2 children
Charles William, 7, born Stanthorne
Fred, 4, born Stanthorne

Both children have mother's maiden name of Palin (GRO)

This is the right family but on the one I’m looking at, both children have the surname Sant. Herbert was an alkali labourer.

[Chris Koons]

Welcome to rootschat

The 1903 marriage certificate gives Martha's age as 20 which would tie in with this birth
Birth Sep qtr 1882 
Palin    Martha Ellen    Mothers maiden surname Whitlow   
Nantwich    8a   359

Parents marriage
Marriages Dec qtr 1877 
Palin    Charles       
Whitlow Alice       
Northwich   reg district 8a   393

Good info! Thank you!! I’ll check it out in the morning... I live in Kansas, so it’s currently the middle of the night. Lol

[avm228]

Herbert’s father was indeed William rather than George, by the looks of earlier records - but that doesn’t mean you have the wrong marriage certificate for Herbert and Martha if all the other information on it makes it clear it is the right one.

Sometimes mistakes were made - people either didn’t know the correct first name of their father (especially in cases of illegitimacy, estrangement or early bereavement) or there was an error by the minister or registrar in recording the information. (Sometimes people born out of wedlock invented a father’s name to avoid the stigma of illegitimacy, but that is not the case here).

In this case William Sant had died aged 50 on 3 April 1893 when Herbert was a few days short of his 15th birthday (sadly William died in Chester Asylum, where he had been admitted on 29 November 1892).  Perhaps Herbert simply knew him as “Father”, and made a mistake as to his name on his marriage years later?

[Jolyon]

Chris,

No direct help with your query but, some years ago I researched my late wife's family history and her lineage includes Palins, from the same area and period, and my guess is they are related to yours.
(Includes a Martha Jane born Crew in 1871 as I recall) 
 
If of any interest send me a Personal Message.


Jolyon

[Chris Koons]

Herbert’s father was indeed William rather than George, by the looks of earlier records - but that doesn’t mean you have the wrong marriage certificate for Herbert and Martha if all the other information on it makes it clear it is the right one.

Sometimes mistakes were made - people either didn’t know the correct first name of their father (especially in cases of illegitimacy, estrangement or early bereavement) or there was an error by the minister or registrar in recording the information. (Sometimes people born out of wedlock invented a father’s name to avoid the stigma of illegitimacy, but that is not the case here).

In this case William Sant had died aged 50 on 3 April 1893 when Herbert was a few days short of his 15th birthday (sadly William died in Chester Asylum, where he had been admitted on 29 November 1892).  Perhaps Herbert simply knew him as “Father”, and made a mistake as to his name on his marriage years later?

I realised, this morning, that Herbert’s eldest sibling was named George & as he was 14 years older than William, maybe he stood in for his father at Herbert’s wedding. Maybe there was also an element of embarrassment, that his father was admitted to & died in the asylum.