ORIGIN OF SURNAME

[Forfarian]

I also have John's birth certificate but some of writing difficult to read.

If you are having trouble reading a certificate you got from SP, report it to them and they will send you a re-scanned version.

If it's a clear image but bad handwriting, post it here and see if we can decipher it. Or on the 'Deciphering etc' forum, but if you do it that way, include a link to this forum.

[daisynook]

I can read the name but most of the rest is the handwriting.  I'll attach a copy.

[Forfarian]

Er ... did you mean to attach an extract from a certificate?

[daisynook]

Yes, since then I've cropped it and it still won't go.  Sorry

[Forfarian]

I suggested that daisynook should send me the certificate in question, and I would resize it so that it can be posted here. She sent me the 1901 marriage certificate and John's 1875 birth certificate. However they are in .pdf format and my photo editor doesn't do .pdfs. (This might also be the reason why RootsChat won't accept it?) So I transcribed both certificates.

MARRIAGE
1901, on the Twenty Second day of April at St Mary’s Chapel, Dundee After Banns according to the Forms of the Roman Catholic Church
(Signed) John Walls, Police Constable, Bachelor, Age 26, Usual residence Mossley, Lancashire, parents John Walls, Police Inspector and Mary Ann McCabe now married to John Boyle, General Labourer, to (Signed) Catherine McIntasney, Jute Spinner, Spinster, age 25, Usual residence 19 James Street, Dundee, parents Bernard McIntasney, Hessian Weaver and Catherine McIntasney, M(aiden) S(urname) McKellosky (Dec(eased))
Married by (signed) Michael Phelan, St Mary’s, Forebank. (Signed) William Walls, Witness, Rose A McIntasney, Witness.
Registered 1901, April 24th, at Dundee, Jas Murray, Registrar.

BIRTH
John Walls, born 1875, May Ninth 8h 50 m AM, 8 Albert Street, Dundee. Male. Parents Henry Walls, Iron Moulder (Jour(neyman)), and Mary Ann Walls, M(aiden) S(urname) McCrudden, (who were married) 1872, Octr 21st, Jarrow, England. Mary Ann Walls ‘x’ her Mark, Mother. David Neish, Registrar, Witness. Registered 1875, May 17th At Lochee, David Neish, Registrar.

What this all means is that the John Walls who married Catherine McIntasney in 1901 is not the one in the birth certificate in 1875 in Dundee, whose parents are completely different.

It also explains the other surnames listed for John Walls in the marriage index - his mother's and his stepfather's surnames as well as his father's.

The John Walls who married Catherine McIntasney was born illegitimate in 1875/1876 and is probably registered as John McCabe.

The transcription of the 1881 census at FindMyPast lists John Walls, grandson, aged 6, in the household of Thomas McCable [sic], aged 48, at 223 Hilltown, Dundee. Mary Ann McCable is aged 26, born Dundee. From the listed siblings of Mary Ann, this is the family of Thomas McCabe and Margaret Culwell, both of whom were born in Ireland. A copy of Bridget McCabe's birth certificate - she was born in Dundee in 1862 - will tell you when and where Thomas and Margaret were married.

Margaret Caldwell or McCabe died in Dundee in 1907, aged 67. Thomas McCabe died in Dundee in 1888 aged 53. Their death certificates should tell you the names of their parents, including their mothers' maiden surnames, if that was known to the informant.

The 1901 census lists in the Police Station, Mossley, Ashton-under-Lyne, Lancashire John Walls, Police Constable, aged 26, born Scotland.

There is a birth of a John McCabe in Dundee in 1875 who could be the John Walls who married Catherine McIntasney.

Mary Anne McCabe married John Boyle in Dundee in 1886.

In 1891 John Walls, 37, Police Constable, is listed in Preston, Lancashire with wife Euphemia, 34 and sons John, 16 and Joseph, 14, all born Scotland.

In 1901 John Walls, Police Inspector, married, aged 47, born Scotland, is a boarder in the household of Ellen Livesey in Preston.

A John Walls and Euphemia Hamilton were married in Glasgow in 1882. If this marriage shows John as a police officer, I think this would nail him as the father-in-law of Catherine McIntasney.

[daisynook]

Thank you Forfarian for taking the time to type all that out - its so complicated I'm going to have to take some time to try and sort it out.  I'm confused with the bit about John Walls and Euphemia Hamilton.  This marriage does show John as a police officer on 1891 Census age 37.  You said - I think this would nail him as the father-in-law of Catherine McIntasney - does that mean her father-in-law is Henry Walls?  On the Census it mentions John, Euphemia Walls, John Walls age 16 on, Joseph 14, all born in Scotland.
What I don't understand is that John Walls is named as head on 1911 Census with Catherine and 4 children https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW12-83F?from=lynx1UIV7 - which John would that be?
I need to know which line goes up from those 4, later 5 children?

[Forfarian]

Thank you Forfarian for taking the time to type all that out - its so complicated I'm going to have to take some time to try and sort it out.  I'm confused with the bit about John Walls and Euphemia Hamilton.  This marriage does show John as a police officer on 1891 Census age 37.  You said - I think this would nail him as the father-in-law of Catherine McIntasney - does that mean her father-in-law is Henry Walls?

No. The John Walls who married Catherine was the son of a police inspector also named John Walls. Therefore the John Walls whose father's name was Henry is not the one who married Catherine. You have the wrong birth certificate.

What I don't understand is that John Walls is named as head on 1911 Census with Catherine and 4 children https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW12-83F?from=lynx1UIV7 - which John would that be?

There are (at least) three different John Walls.

John Walls (1), born in Dundee in 1875, is not the one who was Catherine's husband, because his father's name was Henry, not John, and his mother's surname was McCrudden, not McCabe. He is therefore irrelevant and you should ignore him.

John Walls (2), who was the father of John Walls (3) according to the 1901 marriage certificate. He was a police inspector in 1901, so he would match the 47-year-old police inspector in Preston, Lancashire in 1901, who would also match the 37-year-old police constable in Preston in the 1891 census with wife Euphemia and sons John and Joseph.

John Walls (3), illegitimate son of John Walls (2) by Mary Ann McCabe, and married to Catherine McIntasney in 1901. He is the one in the 1911 census with Catherine and 4 children. He is probably the John McCabe whose birth was registered in Dundee in 1875.

BTW the John Walls -  Euphemia Hamilton marriage is also irrelevant because Euphemia Hamilton or Walls died in 1889. So you can also forget about her.

There is something odd about Euphemia Walls, wife of the police constable in Preston. I can't find a marriage, and although there is a death of a Euphemia Walls, aged 75, in Preston in 1931, John (2) Walls, police pensioner, born Dundee, married Walpurga Polding or Wright, widow of Thomas Wright, in Preston in 1902. So did John (2) and Euphemia Walls get divorced?

[daisynook]

I just thought I had it straight in my mind and then another question mark arises
I'll now start trying to track Euphemia, at least its an unusual name.
 

[Forfarian]

Strewth!

Just found a report in the Preston Herald of 13 August 1902. Mrs Euphemia Walls sued her husband, John Walls, police inspector, for maintenance under a deed of separation. He had not paid her anything since September 1901.

In spite of having signed the deed of separation, John Walls denied that he was Euphemia's husband. Her solicitor, Mr Oakey, argued that he could not now claim not to be her husband, as he had signed the deed of separation. The magistrate allowed Euphemia's solicitor to question her.  The exchange is given verbatim in the report:
Mr Oakey: "Where were you married to him?"
Euphemia: "In the city of Dundee. It was a Scottish marriage, and he was satisfied with it."
Mr Oakey: "When were you married?"
Euphemia: "On the 2nd Wednesday in October 1880."
Mr Oakey: "Had you been married before?"
Euphemia: "Yes, but he was a married man, therefore he could not be my husband."
Mr Oakey: "You were married to Henry Laurence in 1875?"
Euphemia: "Yes, but he is dead, and we don't need to trample over a dead man."
Mr Oakey: "When did he die?"
Euphemia: "I don't know, but I can get it."
Mr Oakey: "Did he die after 1880 or before?"
Euphemia: "I cannot tell you when he died. I can't be certain. It is a number of years."
Mr Oakey: "What are you doing now?"
Euphemia: I am housekeeper to a man."

My mind is now boggling. There is no marriage of Henry Laurence to a Euphemia in 1875, but there is one of a Henry Lawrence to Emily McLennan in Dundee in 1880. There is no record of a marriage of John Walls in 1880. And John Walls clearly believed that he was not legally married to Euphemia because he had married Walpurga in the first quarter of 1902, several months before this court case.