Author Topic: Horan Family  (Read 6562 times)

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Horan Family
« Reply #36 on: Monday 05 August 19 16:37 BST (UK) »
Strange .... And this is all of Ireland ?

Not strange at all. This is Ireland in the 18th century.
If they were Catholics that meant they belonged to a denomination which was discriminated against.

Irish Toolkit
https://www.irish-genealogy-toolkit.com
Genealogy > Irish Church Records
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Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Horan Family
« Reply #37 on: Monday 05 August 19 17:31 BST (UK) »
I wouldn't have a clue where to start for that ,
I have found this
Timothy Horan, Sr
BIRTH   1750
County Cork, Ireland
DEATH   unknown
Portsea, Portsmouth Unitary Authority, Hampshire, England
BURIAL   Unknown
MEMORIAL ID   154760108 · View Source

What is the source for this?  What does the source actually say?
I think "Portsmouth Unitary Authority" is a modern unit of local government.
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Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Horan Family
« Reply #38 on: Monday 05 August 19 18:00 BST (UK) »
Re. reply #24 coat of arms and accompanying biographical information.
Where did this come from?

Summary of biographical information about Timothy Horan Junior:
"Timothy Horan, son of Timothy Horan of Rosscarbery, born about 1778, settled at Portsmouth, married in Portsea Parish Church … 1808, Hannah Evans, …. he died about 1826, a member of the Roman Branch of the church, the family were brought up Anglican, buried Kingston Churchyard, Portsea "

Questions:
Where was Timothy Horan junior born about 1778 - Ireland, England or elsewhere?
Is there any evidence that a member of the Horan family was in Portsmouth before 1808?
Have you found a grave or burial record for the Horan family at Kingston church? What names & dates? If a gravestone, who else is named on the stone?
Have you considered naval and military records? Timothy was present in Portsmouth in 1808 which was during the war against Napoleon's France.  Rosscarbery is also a coastal town. The islands in Cork City's harbour, were heavily fortified against a French invasion. There would have been much naval and military traffic between Portsmouth and Cork and other Irish ports.  Catholics were allowed to join the army after the Catholic Relief Acts of late 18thC. Soldiering was popular with young Irishmen. A high proportion of the British Army were Irish.
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Offline SsGn

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Re: Horan Family
« Reply #39 on: Monday 05 August 19 21:02 BST (UK) »
Thank You Maiden Stone,
According to Find a grave Timothy born about  1778 was born in Portsmouth, After reading your last post I am wondering if his father Timothy was born over here, I have found one born in 1741  in London  then a Than a Timothy born in 1720 in Gosport  Maybe this is the correct route.


Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Horan Family
« Reply #40 on: Tuesday 06 August 19 00:23 BST (UK) »
If Timothy Horan senior was Catholic and born mid-18th century or earlier into a Catholic family in Ireland or England, the chances are that no record of his baptism was made.
The chances for the baptism of Timothy junior, born in last quarter of 18th century in either country having been recorded increase slightly but even if the record once existed it may not have survived. If the baptism happened in England and if the register survives, it may not have been transcribed and may not be easily accessible.
Catholic priests were operating outside the law for most of 18th century.  A priest who felt secure (from arrest) and settled might have decided to begin keeping a register. Ireland, England and Scotland were mission countries for the Catholic Church.
Catholic Relief Acts: Ireland 1774, 1778, 1782, 1793;  England 1778, 1791.

Some of my ancestors lived in an area in Lancashire, England in which a large proportion (a third) of people were Catholic from the Reformation onwards. Gentry were R.C.  A chaplain began keeping a register in 1750s. My 4x great-grandma, born 1765 is missing from it. Her eldest brother isn't in the register either because he was born in 1752 before it began.  Registers of most Catholic missions nearby began later, although they also had large Catholic populations of longstanding. 
Some Catholic chapels were wrecked by mobs at the time of the Jacobite Rebellion 1745 and a priest in Lancashire was arrested and died in prison.  There were further attacks on chapels by mobs opposed to the Catholic Relief Acts in late 18thC.

A contributor to your other thread has found a Timothy Horan in the Navy.
Horan is a common surname in a part of Mayo where some of my family lived. Also in Galway.
One puzzlement - Timothy junior had many sons but not one called Timothy after father and grandfather?
Mind you, eldest son of my GGF had 6 sons, none were named for their grandfather.
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Offline SsGn

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Re: Horan Family
« Reply #41 on: Tuesday 06 August 19 00:34 BST (UK) »
Hi Yes  quite a few son's and as you say no Timothy which have been carried through the generations, it seems.
 I have missed the thread where someone found him in the Navy not sure how they have done that. Yes they were Catholics as this is stated when Timothy born in 1778 married Hannah who was Anglican,
I have found a number of Timothy born in england which matches the year they were born but I cannot find anything in Ireland or England for Timothy born in 1741 who apparently is from Rosscarbery. but not trace of him there .

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Horan Family
« Reply #42 on: Tuesday 06 August 19 01:18 BST (UK) »
It's your thread on the heraldry board.
I looked for a Timothy Horan in military records 1790-1810 on FindMyPast.  1 hit 1803-1810 in British Royal Navy Allotment Declaration 1795-1852. I don't have a subscription so can't look at the record.  I don't know if it's the same one as the other person found. 

Also on FindMyPast under Births, Marriages & Deaths & Burials:
Burial at Portsea St. Mary 1827,  transcribed as Timothy HERRAN. Estimated year of birth presumably taken from age at death.
Marriages Portsea 1808, transcribed as Timothy HORN and Timothy HORNE.
Also burial Portsea 1806 Robert HORN.
Marriage licence 1808 Portsea, Timothy HORNE. His presumed year of birth was 1787;  his recorded age may have been 21 or "21 and upwards" so in either case he might have been any age over 21.  (Have you found a marriage licence for Timothy for the 1808 marriage? Being R.C. he was unlikely to attend church for banns.)
Timothy born 1720 in Gosport (reply #38) is transcribed as Timothy Horne on FindMyPast.
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Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Horan Family
« Reply #43 on: Tuesday 06 August 19 02:02 BST (UK) »

I have hit a brick wall with finding the family of my 5th great grandfather Timothy HoranThe last I am able to find is he was born around 1750 and apparently married a Catherine Cahill. I can only find one marriage for two people with the same name and that was 1853 however Timothy died in 1827 so obviously not the same people.
I have a document of his son also called Timothy born in 1778 and it says he from Rosscarbery,

Hi Hallmark,
He died in Portsmouth in England in 1827.
I assume he was born in Ireland around 1750 as he states he is from Rosscarbery.
I would say married around 1770 but his son was born in England in 1778

Clarification.
As I understand it, the Timothy who died in 1827 was Timothy Horan junior, who was born about 1778, not Timothy Horan senior who is said to have been born around 1750.
The source which mentions Rosscarbery said that Timothy the father was "of Rosscarbery". This doesn't necessarily mean that he, Timothy senior, was born there. "Of Rosscarbery" may mean that it was the place he regarded as home, a place where he had spent part of his life.  He may have been born in Rosscarbery or he may not.
I've seen no mention of Rosscarbery as birthplace of Timothy junior. The wording accompanying the crest is inconclusive regarding Timothy junior's birthplace. It says only that he settled in Portsmouth. It doesn't say where he was born.
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Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Horan Family
« Reply #44 on: Tuesday 06 August 19 02:09 BST (UK) »
Hmmm...so they had a Family Crest??

Have you tried to check up on when they got it?

It's attached to Timothy Horan's memorial page on "Find a Grave".
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/133696901/timothy-horan#view-photo=107916237
This is where it says Timothy Horan junior was born in Portsmouth.
Death 20th Nov. 1827. Gives year of birth as 1778.
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