Looking for info on the parents of ancestor Charles Gordon (1771 Arbroath)

[sdgillen]

Gaelic would have been the language at that time i.e. spellings fluid.

Powgavie or Polgavie certainly has a feel of a Gaelic origin, but I am not sure how you would get from that to Begrie and variants, which is said in G F Black's Surnames of Scotland to be of territorial origin either from Balgray in Angus or Bagra near Banff.

I doubt that Gaelic was widely spoken in Arbroath in the 18th century.

I think I've read about the name Balgray being based in Angus awhile back. I used that spelling for awhile on my family tree.

Yeah, I don't think Gaelic was spoken in Arbroath during that time.

[sdgillen]

If this were my family I would use some credits to view the sibling’s baptisms, though not really expecting to find any helpful information. However I would not like to suggest someone else use their credits to do so as the findings are not guaranteed. It may, or may not, help to check spelling interpretations of Isobel’s surname. 

A few thoughts:

Look for their deaths?  I don’t suppose you know who Agnes married and when she died? As she seems to be the youngest maybe she was long lived and made it to 1855. That might just confuse the issue with Isobel’s surname though as you might end up with another variant. This is unlikely to help with Robert and Isobel’s origins either.

As there does not seem to be a record of the marriage of Robert and Isobel, have you looked at other Gordons  or Balgivie families in Arbroath to see if these two fit in to any of them? 

Though there are not enough children to be useful have you considered the Scottish naming pattern?Third son is not Robert but the other two? 

I've yet to see that name on SP, but I'll try some different spellings and dates just to see what's there. I think I will buy some credits for the siblings, though; it certainly won't hurt.

What's the pattern, exactly?

[sdgillen]

Gaelic would have been the language at that time i.e. spellings fluid.

Powgavie or Polgavie certainly has a feel of a Gaelic origin, but I am not sure how you would get from that to Begrie and variants, which is said in G F Black's Surnames of Scotland to be of territorial origin either from Balgray in Angus or Bagra near Banff.

I doubt that Gaelic was widely spoken in Arbroath in the 18th century.

I'm glad you mentioned Gaelic though; when was it that Gaelic was spoken widely in Angus, being that it's outside of the Highlands? I've always been curious about when people switched to English.

[sdgillen]

I found an Isobel Bagray born 1740 in Marnoch, but I'd think the location makes it seem very unlikely.

[Rosinish]

I don't think Gaelic was spoken in Arbroath during that time.

I think both yourself & Forfarian have picked me up wrong as I was referring to the Perthshire name connection.

I pointed out the name being used in Kettins in the same thread in the 1500s but it was basically just an observation of a possible Perthshire link with the older spelling of the surname which may have derived from Polgavie although it now seems unlikely.

I don't think I mentioned a link with Arbroath?

Can you take us back a couple of generations to give us an idea of the name change occuring?

Annie

[sdgillen]

Some info from the baptism records:


George Gordon: born 1767 - witnesses Sylvester Gordon and John Milne

John Gordon- born 1769 - witnesses John Gordon and James Johnstone


then on Charles's, I noticed witnesses as well: James Johnston, Charles (K?)eith, and Sylvester
Gordon


There's a Sylvester Gordon born 1747 in Inverkeilor, son of another Sylvester Gordon. Could he be Robert's brother? The year and location would definitely make sense.

[Rosinish]

Well, Sylvester is certainly not a common name in Scotland whether with surname Gordon or any other surname.

As I previously mentioned, OPRs can at times be very useful.

Annie

[Rosinish]

For baptisms, can you check others on the pages just to make sure James Johnstone doesn't appear frequently on others?

Does the word witness appear rather than sponsor?

Annie

[sdgillen]

For baptisms, can you check others on the pages just to make sure James Johnstone doesn't appear frequently on others?

Does the word witness appear rather than sponsor?

Annie

It says witness, and I don't see that name anywhere else. I almost forgot about Agnes: born 1777, witnesses Sylvester Gordon and John Petrie. The name John Petrie sounds familiar; I'm pretty sure there's a distant cousin or uncle named John Petrie Gordon in the family.