Looking for marriage of John Pringle to Janet Munro, 1853, prob. Berwickshire

[CaroleW]

In 1871 they also had the following children and Janet is Jennet

James 15 b Newcastle   Mmn Monro
John 13 b Newcastle  mmn Munro
Jessie 11 b Berwickshire

[Forfarian]

First of all, the source of the vast majority original Scottish BMD and census documents is www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

However I've had a rake about, and it's not looking great for answering your questions.

The record of this marriage is not there, so it seems that it has not survived, if it ever existed.

I see that John and Janet had one child born in Scotland, Jessie, in 1859. This is unfortunate, because in 1855 and every year from 1860 onwards a Scottish birth certificate includes the date and place of the parents' marriage.

There's a household in the 1861 census in Byker consisting of Jessie Pringle, 25, born Scotland; James Pringle, son, 5, born Newcastle; John Pringle, son, 3, born Newcastle; Jessie Pringle, 1, born Scotland. Ten years later they are in Guisborough; John (aged 40) is with the family, and Janet is listed as Jennet, aged 35. Both John and Janet are listed as born in Berwickshire.

(Note that Jessie and Janet are totally interchangeable in Scotland. If you're having trouble finding a Janet, look for Jessie, and vice versa.)

If Janet/Jennet/Jessie was 25 in 1861 and 35 in 1871, she was born in 1835/1836, and therefore 17 or 18 on marriage, not 15, and hence the age on the gravestone is wrong. Also, if John was 40 in 1871, then he was born in 1830/1831, not 1827/1828.

The children in the censuses are James, John, Jessie, George, Thomas and Anne. If (and it's a big if) they followed the Scottish naming tradition you would expect John's parents' names to be James and Anne, and Janet's to be John and Jessie, but it's not 100% reliable.

The Robert Pringle, tailor, who was at Broomhouse Paper Mill, parish of Edrom, in 1841, seems to be living wirh his sister Elizabeth and her husband John Ainslie in 1851. Also in the household is his mother Jane, aged 84. It looks as if he may be the one baptised in Edrom in 1795, son of George Pringle, mother not named. In 1861 he is a boarder in Chirnside, and in 1871 he is boarding with some of the Ainslie family. I can't find him after that, unless he is one of the two 83-year-old Robert Pringles who died elsewhere in Scotland, one in 1874, the other in 1877.

I'll go away and scratch my head and come back if I have any more ideas.

[TadlowNewell]

Yes, most of the children have mmn = Munro or Munroe per GRO so I'm pretty confident of the family being 'right'

I was thinking that the Newcastle marriage in 1863 actually fits well with the start of the family i.e. George's birth in 1881-17=1864. It also gives a more sensible age at marriage for Jane(t) than the gravestone which suggests she was 15 when she married.

Are the 1871 info you post from 1871 census.? That's new information for me. Exciting. Thanks so much for all this help.

[TadlowNewell]

Thanks s much forfarian. I'm going to have to digest that lot. Some of the info is familiar, but a lot is new. So helpful.

[Forfarian]

the Newcastle marriage in 1863 actually fits well with the start of the family i.e. George's birth in 1881-17=1864.

But George is not the start of the family.

In the 1871 census
John Pringle Head Mar 40 Plate layer Scotland
Jennet Pringle Wife Mar 35 Scotland
James Pringle Son 15 Northumberland, England
John   Pringle Son 13 Northumberland, England
Jessie Pringle Daughter 11 Scotland
George Pringle Son 7 Yorkshire, England
Thomas Pringle Son 4 Yorkshire, England
Anne Pringle Daughter 1 Yorkshire, England

[CaroleW]

1863 marriage already ruled out as couple found in Manchester in 1871.  At the time the 1863 marriage details were posted - only the 1881 details were know which shows George as eldest child

[CaroleW]

No marriage in England or Scotland.  If John died before Janet, the child/children who erected the memorial may have been under the impression that they were married

[Forfarian]

It could just be that for whatever reason there's no record of the marriage, even though it did take place. The 1859 birth certificate of Jessie might clarify that, even though it won't actually contain the date and place of the marriage.

Have you looked at the baptisms of the English-born children to see if there are any witnesses who might be related?

[trish1120]

Not sure id this has been found?

1841 Census
Kirkgate, Chirnside
Margaret Paxton, 70
Janet Monro, 36
Janet Monro, 4