MIssing birth record

[Milliepede]

Ok long shot especially if he was born abroad but there is a Richard Briggs Vickers born Pontefract Mar 1849 with mothers name Briggs.

I got to that from looking for a Mary Ann marriage in Lincolnshire and found a Mary Anne Vickers marriage in Jun 1851 Lincoln. 

Probably nothing to do with it but have learned to post everything no matter how silly it sounds just in case!

[Annette7]

An Alice Ann Norris birth reg'd Mar.1863 Pontefract - mmn Butler.

Alice Ann Norris bp.13/9/1864 Pontefract, dau. of James Norris and Mary Ann - James' occupation is Artillery Gunner.

Annette


 

[Jamjar]

Maybe?:

Sep 1843 E London 2 185
BROWN Mary Ann
NORRIS James

NORRIS, JANE mmn BROWN 
GRO Reference: 1852  J Quarter in PONTEFRACT  Volume 09C  Page 58

NORRIS, JOHN mmn BROWN 
GRO Reference: 1854  J Quarter in PONTEFRACT  Volume 09C  Page 63

NORRIS, CATHERINE mmn BROWN 
GRO Reference: 1856  J Quarter in PONTEFRACT  Volume 09C  Page 61

NORRIS, JONATHAN mmn BROWN 
GRO Reference: 1858  J Quarter in PONTEFRACT  Volume 09C  Page 51

NORRIS, CHARLES mmn BROWN 
GRO Reference: 1861  D Quarter in PONTEFRACT  Volume 09C  Page 60

If Mary was born around 1836, then unlikely the above marriage is her’s.

May be her as Parker in 1891: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:WTVH-VPZ

Her in 1901: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XS78-4XD

Jamjar
 

[Dundee]

UK, British Army and Navy Birth, Marriage and Death Records, 1730-1960 on Ancestry.

Mary Ann NORRIS, widow, married William PARKER at Leeds on 21 April 1868.  William was a bachelor, a gunner in the RHA (D Brigade) and it is also noted there that he was discharged on 25 Nov 1873.

The church record of St Mary, Hunslet, shows her as aged 30, father Richard ASHTON, a carpet manufacturer.  Address for both William and Mary Ann is Hardwick's Buildings.

If this is the right Mary Ann she would have to be fibbing about her age, or she is not Richard's biological mother.

Debra 

[avm228]

Richard Norris (no middle name) joined the Army at Pontefract in May 1863 giving his age as 14 yrs 6mo and birthplace as Pontefract. He served as a bandsman. No next of kin details were given other than of his wife Elizabeth née Butler whom he married at Ardington on 8 January 1876.

[SueHanson]

welcome to RootsChat
On A******y there is a public members tree which gives d.o.b. 27 Feb 1849 -there are a lot of documents and a photograph but I am having difficulty loading them

Suz

Hi Suzard.  You've found one that I haven't then.  Any chance you could give me a tree name and I can look at it, maybe see if I can download the records you're seeing?  Richard's army records do give a dob but of 29/6/1848 and I haven't found anything using three different websites (are we allowed to name them on here??).

Sue

[SueHanson]

Hi Sue and welcome 

First of all have you found him on the 1851 census?  If so who is he living with please?

I wish I had Milliepede as then I would know more about his parents.  I can't find 1851 or 1861.  Given his father was a soldier, it does seem possible that he may have been born in Pontefract but then spent time abroad with his family so no census records available.  I can but plod on! Sue

[bevo]

National Archives have a record about a William Parker, possibly the one who married Mary Norris...

Frederick William, a child of William PARKER of D Brigade Royal Horse Artillery and Mary Ann, was born on 24 January 1863 at Guernsey.
Alice Maud Ann, a child of William PARKER of D Brigade Royal Horse Artillery and Mary Ann, was born in January Aug at Pontefract. WO 69/67/102

[Annette7]

An Alice Ann Norris birth reg'd Mar.1863 Pontefract - mmn Butler.

Alice Ann Norris bp.13/9/1864 Pontefract, dau. of James Norris and Mary Ann - James' occupation is Artillery Gunner.

Annette

Following on from my earlier posting.
Richard Norris adamant he was born in Pontefract ca.1850 (census and army service record), father James, soldier, per marriage certificate and 1901 Census shows his mother as Mary A Parker bc.1834 Hyde, Lincolnshire (but no such place exists).

The baptism of Alice Ann Norris 1864 Pontefract, shows parents as James Norris, Artillery Gunner, and mother Mary Ann.   The GRO index shows mmn as Butler (coincidentally the maiden name of Richard Norris’ wife.

With no birth entry in name of Richard Norris at Pontefract for the relevant time was Richard born before his parents married?   Was he born as Richard Butler?   There is indeed a Richard Butler birth entry in Dec.qtr.1849 Pontefract and birth entry has no mmn i.e. illegitimate.   I then looked at 1851 Census and found:

1851 Pontefract
Daniel Butler   51    widr.   Hand Loom Weaver
Mary Ann Butler  21 dau.   Servt.     Born Hide, Yorkshire
Richard Butler 1                            born Pontefract.

In 1856 a James Norris married in Dec.qtr.1856 Yeovil, Somerset where one of 2 possible brides is a Mary Ann Butler.   Alas, no details of this marriage online so possibly in a register office.

An Adolphus Alfred Norris birth reg’d Dec.1858 Elham, mmn Butler and found baptism 5/12/1858 Cheriton, Kent, son of James and Mary Ann (transcription on FindMyPast but no online entry for original parish record).   Cheriton had major army barracks at Shorncliffe Camp.
 
Said Adolphus Alfred Norris died and was buried 27/2/1865 Pontefract aged 7 years.  Aforesaid Alice Ann Norris – sister – had birth reg’d Mar.1863 Pontefract so was born late 1862 or early 1863 and then I found:

James Norris bc.1825 buried 14/10/1862 Pontefract – this person does not appear in any records for Pontefract before 1862 so is this James Norris, the soldier?   Seems likely to me, with Pontefract being the ‘home’ parish (not birthplace) of Mary Ann Butler in 1851 and where her father was.  Although original parish record available unfortunately occupations not given on burial records.

So, Richard Norris born pre marriage to Mary Ann Butler in 1849 Pontefract with likely marriage to James Norris 1856 Yeovil (lots of army camps around Yeovil).  Son Adolphus Alfred Norris born 1858 Cheriton (army camp there) and he died and was buried 1865 Pontefract.   James Norris bc.1825 buried 14/10/1862 Pontefract and wife Mary Ann no doubt heavily pregnant with daughter Alice Ann.

James Norris, wife Mary Ann together with Richard and Adolphus should appear on 1861 census but can find no trace of them although they may well have been overseas.  With James ailing did they return to her home in Pontefract where James died 1862, daughter Alice Ann born shortly after, and son Adolphus dying there in 1865.  (Don’t think the remarriage for a Mary Ann Norris in 1868 to William Parker is the right one.   From births of children her maiden name definitely Butler not Ashton). 

Annette