DEMS Gunner Records

[HMac]

Hi,
I Remember trying to work this out years ago but nothing concrete came of it. The thinking now is that it is a draft recognition code. Which changed frequently and doesn't actually mean anything. So you cannot be sure it has anything to do with the Russian Convoy.

I have been researching DEMS for years - they are difficult to research as you have found out. Their service at sea is contained within a maritime card. These are still with the MOD and are held in files WO 435 and WO 436 and are due to be transferred to TNA Kew with the next few years. Read this especially page 2 - http://ww2talk.com/index.php?threads/medal-award-query.91301/

You can also use MN crew agreements to find him although this does need a known ship to work with.
If you wish to give his name, date and place of birth (by private message if you prefer) I can have a check of some of my sources.
Regards
Hugh

[maclin1351]

Thank you so much Hugh.
 On his service records it shows George Henry Machardie. That is spelt in other places so differenty, MacHardie, MacHardie, MacHardy, Machardy, etc

D.O.B is 17.1.1920 Edinburgh

regards Linda

[HMac]

Hi Linda,
I am sorry that he doesn’t appear in any of my sources on or offline. I don’t suppose you have any dates for him being at Murmansk or any information that may link to a ship?
For MRA gunners who survived the war, the key is the maritime card held in WO 435 and WO 436 and those files have not been released yet. So, I would suggest you contact the MOD again and ask if they could check if he has a maritime card. As we can’t identify a ship yet, it will be difficult without another lead.
Regards
Hugh

[maclin1351]

Thank you once again Hugh.

I don't have any information, other than a couple of photos I can remember, but that my Mother threw away, and a couple of them were in tropical uniform, so may other posting before these RC.  /H spoke about that russian convoys mostly, especially Murmansk, and Archangel, and obviously talk of his PTS, tied up with the fact that he had a real anxiety disorder for quite some time, was little and far between.
I have looked at hios service records several time, tryinf to see if there are any clues, but most helpfully, all postings seem to say Abroad, apart from  a couple where it says see Maritime Card .

I will take your suggestion, and contact MOD.  If I get response, I will let you know, it could help others.
Have been reading some books on men that served in those convoys, and it makes me shudder to think what many went through
Thank you again
Linda

[maclin1351]

Hi Chicken, replying to you.

I sent for my Fathers Service Record firstly, via MOD, once I had that I applied to the address given,if you look up Russian Convoy medal, and how to apply
This is fleet airarm application, but you will find information is the same

https://www.fleetairarmoa.org/news/arctic-star-application

Good Luck

[Andy J2022]

Just to update the thread re some earlier information from Hugh Mac, TNA are now saying that the WO 435 series (Ship's cards) consists of 18 boxes containg 10,000 cards, and WO 436 (Medal cards) will be made up of 38 boxes, and the "Series is accruing" which I take mean it's a work in progress.

[HMac]

Cheers Andy that is correct.
The problem for me has always been the release of Army records for D.E.M.S. MRA without attaching a maritime card and frustrations with the MOD as why some do and some don't.

Just to re-emphasise: maritime cards will only be for Army gunners. For Royal Navy D.E.M.S. Pay & Victualing ledgers will need to be searched by the MOD.

Merchant Navy Crew Agreements can also be used in searches for both and Army and Navy D.E.M.S gunners as they signed on as part of the ship's crew.

For Linda, did you manage to progress your search for G.H. MacHardie?

Regards
Hugh
 

[maclin1351]

Hello Hugh, not so far.  I am so cross, because when my Mother married again, she threw all Dads photos out, and although I have some pics of Dad onboard ships with the Guns, the ones I really wanted were some showing ship in port, with a massive hole in it, when it was blown up and I remember Dad saying it was is ship. It may have had identification o it. I was only young and didnt think to ask questions

So are you thinking the cards might be available? He was GH MacHardie, a Royal Artillery Gunner.

regards
Linda

[HMac]

Hi Linda,
As Andy says the series is accruing so is a work in progress - I am sure he will have cards in there when they are processed so very much a watch this space or keep asking them.

Hugh