People interned at the start of WWII

[BenRalph]

I have just been told that one of my relatives was interned for 5 days at the outbreak of the war. He was my great granddad's brother so I'd expect my great granddad would have been too. They were both born in Leeds but their dad was born, and grew up, in Germany to English parents, but we believe he had a strong German accent.

I was wondering if anybody knew where abouts they - if it was both of them as I haven't heard it passed down our side that it happened to my great granddad - would have been held and if there's any records of the time? And also what would they need to provide to get out of the place they were interned.

[MaxD]

A newspaper report of September 1939 records that "a number of internment camps for enemy aliens are being built in different parts of the country"  It goes on to say that there are about 50000 aliens in the country and each will have to appear before a tribunal which will be able to recommend internment, release under police supervision or to allow the alien to join up (mother was in the middle category!).  If the number to be interned is smaller than thought, the camps were to be used for something else.  It was recognised that perhaps 35000 were refugees from the Nazi regime.  There was also an appeal system

It may well be that you could find out about camps local to Leeds via the library or record offices of the area.  There were some (not the only ones) on the Isle of Man:
https://dirkdeklein.net/2018/02/17/wwii-internment-camps-in-britain/

MaxD

[KGarrad]

Most of the internment records are in TNA, I believe.
Certainly there are very few records held on the Isle of Man.

[brigidmac]

It sounds like it was a mistake so only 5 days ...maybe your great grandfather had necessary papers to prove his British parentage.
If they were  genuine "aliens " they could have applied for naturalization .were both parents British ??

 

[Rena]

Immigrants were known as "Aliens" in those days.  Not many Alien Records survive but I was lucky enough to find my gt.grandfather's records by surfing with the county name plus police records and then his full name.  Perhaps the county he lived in still has his local police report.

He was allowed to live in his own home but had to report every day to the local police station and the thick file showed the local constabulary had reported to the county constabulary regularly .  Four of his sons served in WWI and his oldest son was killed in action in 1918.    I discovered he'd arrived here from Europe when he was 10 years one day old.  The records even had details of who had brought him, plus the names of both parents and the name of the village he was born in during the 1850s.  He died during WWII in his 80s so the records even had the exact date of death.  In those days wives took the nationality of the husband, thus his English wife was also an Alien and was in the official Alien database.

This is the East Riding of Yorkshire list of Aliens.

shrunk url link

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01opv/

[chempat]

Lots of information on Google searches, e.g.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ww2peopleswar/timeline/factfiles/nonflash/a6651858.shtml

[BenRalph]

Thank you Max for the info on 'aliens' during the war. I didn't realise how harsh it could have been on people of German origin during the wars.

Thank you also to KGarrad for the info on where some records are held. Unfortunately I don't like near TNA or anywhere near the Isle Of Man, but at least I now know where the records are.

It sounds like it was a mistake so only 5 days ...maybe your great grandfather had necessary papers to prove his British parentage.
If they were  genuine "aliens " they could have applied for naturalization .were both parents British ??

The relative in question (who was the brother of my great grandfather) was born in England. His mum was English but his dad (Walter) was born in Germany and grew up there until 1900. Walter's parents were English and moved to Germany in 1866 from Suffolk. So the family were only German for one generation on my part (there remains some German family over there but they all stem from Moses & Gertrude who were who went over in 1866). Walter died in 1927 so it'd be interesting to know how the government knew Sidney's dad was born in Germany 12 years later.

Thank you Rena for that info. It is great how much info you got from documents. I do hope I am lucky enough to find documents with so much info on.

Thanks again all.

[brigidmac]

My Russian great grandfather had to report to a police station every time he changed address that was world war 1

He also got arrested for 'being an alien in an unauthorized place without necessary documents'
He must have got better documents after that ...so we now have additional information about his arrival date and a photo .

I'm wondering how your ancestor Walter was treated in WW1 ...

[BenRalph]

I'm wondering how your ancestor Walter was treated in WW1 ...

Well, it's a 'funny' story as he wasn't treated great, but it wasn't undeserved.

He came over in 1899 and, by 1901, had already had a run-in with the police for chasing - and trying to stab - a British soldier. By 1914 he was counterfeiting coins in his kitchen with his step-daughter and her boyfriend who she was pregnant to. The step-daughter and boyfriend were sentenced to prison, but I don't know if Walter was.

Lena (the step-daughter) gave birth in prison and the baby died a few weeks old, and she didn't stay with the boyfriend. She then had 2 other children out of wedlock and married late in life with the husband dying a few weeks after the marriage.

Walter died in Menton Lunatic Asylum in 1927 of syphilis (which wasn't known of them but is the likely reason after researching a lot about his symptoms and the diagnosis) after 'falling from a horse'.

His siblings lived a few streets away yet none of our side of the family knew of their existence until we looked into our family tree. They too knew nothing of us.

His wife died in 1945 after falling out of bed during an earth tremor. His son died of TB in his mid-40s. One of his grandchildren died of TB and another (my granddad) survived TB but died of PSP in his mid-60s. So it seems a lucky family.