Mary J Carpenter

[Mariel Mariel]

I have taken on board ALL of the advice offered here. Can someone please tell me what sort of information I am likely to get from a transcription? I didn't know this service was available and I'm wondering, if I were to get just one transcription, which certificate would have the most information?

- Mary's birth certificate b.1889 might have her middle name but little else;
- her youngest brothers' birth or death certificate b.1901 d.1911 age 10, 6 years after she disappeared; is it likely to have siblings listed?
- Marys' father Job d.1927; would it list alll children, alive or dead or only those known to the informant?
- Mary's mother Sarah d.1935; would all children be listed?

[Jennaya]

Hi Muriel
JM is the certificate expert and will be able to tell you what is on a certificate. The transcriptions have exactly the same information as the certificate. It's copied and typed up rather than the original writing.

Death certificates are only as accuarate as the informants knowledge. So look at who the informant was, ie a surviving spouse would perhaps know more than a child of the deceased. Death certificates should have all children of the marriage listed and whether living or dead. Birth certificates should have all older siblings and ages listed, as well as whether they are living or deceased.

Regards
Jennaya

[Dundee]

- Mary's birth certificate b.1889 might have her middle name but little else;

The birth is indexed as just Mary CARPENTER, if there was a middle name on the registration it would be indexed.

The death cert of her father may tell you if she was still living in 1927.  I know that some people have acquired death certs which name female children with their married surnames but I have not had one myself and do not know how common that was.

Debra 

[Dundee]

Thank you Robert but Mary and May were two seperate people; it was a large family. Mary b. 1889 May b. 1894 and died same year.

There is no birth registration for a 'May' CARPENTER.  How have you determined the age of the child who died in 1894?

Debra 

[sparrett]

This link will show you what you may expect to find on NSW BDM certificates.

http://www.jaunay.com/bdm.html

If I were choosing I would probably get Job's death certificate.  There is a good chance the informant was his still-living wife or, at least,that the information was sourced from her, so has a greater chance of being correct.

The birth of Mary's closest brother could have been informed for by any family member and their knowledge could be unreliable.

My opinion only!
Sue
 

[majm]

I agree with Sue,  Job Carpenter's death certificate is likely to have the family history information as per his wife, Sarah.   As the index for Mary's birth in 1889 has Job and Sarah for her birth, and as Sarah was alive when Job died late December 1926, it is likely Sarah would be the informant on Job's death.

NSW BDM website here :
 https://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/Pages/family-history-research/registry-records.aspx
shows us that since 1856, that death certificates (and thus official transcriptions of those d.c.) should include:
the deceased's
   
Full name, sex, age, date & place of death, place of residence, occupation and marital status.

Place of marriage, age when married, full name of spouse. Children's name and ages. Parents' names and mother's maiden name.

Cause of death and duration of last illness. Burial or cremation date and place.   

I agree with Dundee, it is rare that the married surname of the adult child of the deceased is recorded but the (Christian) names of the living and their then ages are given in chronological order,

If I had enough spare pennies to order two official transcriptions during the special offer period,  for second choice  and taking on board Sue's thoughts re a child providing the rego info, I would give serious consideration to ordering Dolly CARPENTER's birth cert...  she married and became Mrs ONSLOW and *** is mentioned in Job's obit.   Dolly's birth is after May's 1894 death...  so we should learn several critical aspects from Dolly's b.c. 

So,
 
My first preference :
Job CARPENTER NSW BDM death cert reference #2542/1927

My second preference, if enough pennies available :
Dolly CARPENTER, NSW BDM birth cert reference # 31189/1899

JM  *** My grey cells are falling over today,  I cannot verify my own statement re where I learnt that Mrs F ONSLOW was Job's daughter...  I will re-enrol in family history 101 at this rate   

[majm]

https://www.familysearch.org/search/

  I usually avoid the genealogies side to the above website,  but I have just looked, and someone has a submitted tree with and there's 'J' as though it is her middle name ... and there's 13 children for Job and Sarah...   These submitted trees can be so very misleading, especially for those who are actually keen to learn about their actual family history rather than just a 'perhaps probably' version.

Familysearch genealogies submitted tree (submitted 12 May 2011) has Job and Sarah’s offspring as:
Phoebe 1879-1944
George 1881-1919
Job Ernest 1882-1950
Thomas 1885-1929
Ernest John 1887-1954
Mary J 1889-
Pearl 1890-1974
Arthur 1892-1957
May 1894-1894
Albert 1895-1963
Ruby 1897-1959
Dolly 1899-1973
Selby 1901-1911

Re May, that submitted tree has her birth 14 February 1894, Uralla, and her death ‘about 1894 Uralla’.  There's no such birth noted on the NSW BDM online index...  I have checked carefully, as I am sure that many of our regular RChatters have also done... 

NSW BDM as Mary’s birth as 14 February, but in 1889, and at Uralla.   

NSW BDM has May’s death as 17 June 1894, at Armidale. 


JM

[majm]

May was 5 years old when she died in June 1894.   

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/188984229 Armidale Express 19 June 1894.

Diphtheria.—At the infectious hospital on Friday afternoon last Dr. Murray performed the operation of tracheotomy on May Carpenter, a little girl five years of age, suffering from diphtheria. The operation was successfully carried out, and the little patient gave hopeful signs of recovery; but the shock to the system proved too great, and she succumbed to the dire malady on Sunday morning, notwithstanding the skill and attention devoted to her.

To me,  Mary born 1889 and May who succumbed aged just 5 years, in 1894 are one and the same person.


JM   

[sparrett]

May was 5 years old when she died in June 1894.   

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/188984229 Armidale Express 19 June 1894.

Diphtheria.—At the infectious hospital on Friday afternoon last Dr. Murray performed the operation of tracheotomy on May Carpenter, a little girl five years of age, suffering from diphtheria. The operation was successfully carried out, and the little patient gave hopeful signs of recovery; but the shock to the system proved too great, and she succumbed to the dire malady on Sunday morning, notwithstanding the skill and attention devoted to her.

To me,  Mary born 1889 and May who succumbed aged just 5 years, in 1894 are one and the same person.


JM   

Ahh. Well dug out that one
So I wonder whether the birth certificate of the child following Mary/May (1889) would confirm matters. Or would a later child make it clearer?
Sue