Need help with a Welsh placename..

[Llwyd]

Hi there,

Due to the vagaries of the Welsh language I think you will find that Tyn y Celyn can be translated two ways.

1.Close or near the holly.
2.House in the holly.

It all depends on how it is written.In the first instance it is Tyn Y Celyn.In the second instance it is Ty yn Y Celyn,but in Welsh cannot have two Y's together and it is written Ty'n Y Celyn.Then laziness sets in and it becomes Tyn Y Celyn or Tyn Celyn or even Tyncelyn.So take your pick.

It is difficult to say where Llanfair is.It is commonly used as a prefix to other words and means Mary's Church. It could be Llanfair Dyffryn Clwyd,which translates to Marys Church In The Valley Of The Clwyd(river),Denbighshire.Or it could Llanfair Dyffryn Ceiriog,Denbighshire----same as above but The Ceiriog(river).It could even be a number of other Llanfairs--just Google the name Llanfair and you will see what I mean.

Bothy of these place names, just to make things more awkward, shorten to Llanfair DC.

As for Tyn Y Celyn being a village, I think Hack is mistaken. I don't know of one with that name.There is, however, a village called Pentre Celyn(Holly Village) which is near to Llanfair Dyffryn Clwyd.

I hope this is of some use to you.Best of luck in your research.
 

[landvaettir]

Thanks for all the information. 

Now i really wish i could read Welsh..

Yeah, i've googled around for Llanfair and coudn't make much sense of where it was.. But somewhere in the Ruthin area would make the most sense to me, because the rest of the family came from a couple kilometres around there and then eventually settled down in Ruthin.

[davierj]

Hey Llwyd,, I think you've got it with Ty'n y Celyn, house in the holly.  Hope my apostrophes are all OK in English and Welsh 

What's all this adding 'uchaf' (highest) to the already  made up name of LlanfairPG?

Cheers (iechyd da) Dave (Dewi ai Dafydd)

[Llwyd]

Nothing to do with me Dave. However, it keeps the Sais interested and tongue tied.

[dmjones]

It could be Tyn y Celyn, a farm about 1 mile NE of Llanfair DC (Dyffryn Clwyd) near Ruthin. The farm is on a B road which runs south approximately parallel with the A525 about a mile to the east and links Llanbedr to Llysfasi along the base of the Clwydian mountains.
The farm is just a short distance from the farm where I was born - Tyn y Caeau (house in the fields). My family have farmed in that area for generations so I would be interested to know if there are any family connections.
Regards
David M Jones

[landvaettir]

It could be Tyn y Celyn, a farm about 1 mile NE of Llanfair DC (Dyffryn Clwyd) near Ruthin. The farm is on a B road which runs south approximately parallel with the A525 about a mile to the east and links Llanbedr to Llysfasi along the base of the Clwydian mountains.
The farm is just a short distance from the farm where I was born - Tyn y Caeau (house in the fields). My family have farmed in that area for generations so I would be interested to know if there are any family connections.
Regards
David M Jones

Hi. I hope there's a connection somewhere.
Searching on google i found a couple things on the bbc about  a Tyn y Celyn farm near Clocaenog, near Ruthin.  About how it was auctioned off for £2.7m a couple years ago, and how the last owner was a Jones. Is this the same house?

Mary Diana Jones was born in 1884 at Tyn-y-Celyn. The certificate listed her mother as Anne Jones (Farmer's daughter) but not the father's name (illegitimate). Anne Jones later married Abel Davies.

And of Anne's parents and siblings, i've got from the census':

father -  Evan Jones - b: abt.1841-1843 Bryneglwys, Denbighshire, Wales
mother - Anne -- - b: abt.1840-1844 Bryneglwys, Denbighshire, Wales
dau - Anne Jones - b: abt.1864 Bryneglwys, Denbighshire, Wales
son - Hugh Thomas Jones - b: abt.1865 Bryneglwys, Denbighshire, Wales
son - Jane Elizabeth Jones - b: abt.1867 Bryneglwys, Denbighshire, Wales
son - Robert E. Jones - b: abt.1874 Corwen, Merionethshire, Wales

Mary Diana Jones married John Edwards of Ruthin in 1911, and raised her family there (including my Grandma). I don't know the names of Grandma's Jones cousins. Do you know if there is a connection? Or know how i can find out more information?

[landvaettir]

I guess i was completely off on the Tyn y Celyn farm near Clocaenog.

This should be the one where Mary Diana Jones was born.

[dmjones]

You said the village was Llanfair so this will probably be the right Tyn y Celyn.
You Grandma would be about the same age as my Mum and Dad (no longer alive) and they would have probably known of your family, also my Aunt Mary was born at Cae Coch the neighbouring farm south west of Tyn y Celyn.
Is your Grandma still alive or can you give any names of relations from Ruthin (locations would help) I and my wife may even know some of them ourselves (from school, I was born 1944) my brother now lives just near by at Llanrhydd farm and you can see Tyn y Celyn from his house.
David

[landvaettir]

My Grandma is still alive but i don't think she can remember relations other than her brothers and sisters. I'll send you a PM with those and their children who you might know of.
She grew up in a townhouse, near the edge of Ruthin, called Cobden Cottage, i think on Park Lane (or Street).