William Lloyd - Market Drayton

[Tall Al]

Hi,

I would appreciate help in trying to find my great great grandfather- William Lloyd and his parents. Currently I know that -

1) He married Lydia Downes on 24 December 1846 at Drayton in the Hales (I have the marriage certificate) - occupation Tailor - both parties are said to be of full age. His father is shown as James Lloyd, and his residence is shown as Market Drayton. The occupations of both parents of William and Lydia  (James Lloyd and Thomas Down(e)s is shown as Grocer - however this is at least partly incorrect as in 1841/51 censuses Thomas Down(e)s occupation is a Tailor

2) Lydia gave birth to my great grandfather (also named William) on 15 March 1847 and she died the same day 15 March 1847 (Epilepsy) age 21.

3) The son (William born 1847) was brought up by Lydia's parents and in 1851 had moved from Shropshire to Grappenhall, Warrington, Cheshire. I can trace William 1847 for all censuses afterwards.

I am stuck on William (a Tailor) who married Lydia and his father(James) supposedly a Grocer. The nearest possibility I can see is in Wrenbury Cheshire which in 1841 shows a William Lloyd age 15, as a Tailor with his father James being a Weaver.

A fresh set of eyes on this would be much appreciated.

Many thanks

Alan

[trish1120]

May be a long shot?

1841 Census
Blackhouse
Bettus, Shropshire
Ann Lloyd   55 Farmer
William Lloyd 25 Tailor****
Hendry Lloyd 20
Samual Lloyd 13
Thomas Lloyd 15 Tailor
Easter Lloyd 10
Ann/William NOT born in County

[Tall Al]

Hello Trish,

Many thanks for this. I am not sure of this family because firstly there is no sign of the father. I did find a baptisms for Thomas and Samuel Lloyd at Bettus in 1826/1828 (which is about right for the family) with father Rees(e) and mother Ann. It seems reasonable to suggest therefore that this is not "My William"

Also I am assuming at the time of William's 1846 marriage, as the certificate does not show the father as deceased, that James was alive at that time. Likely to have been a "shotgun wedding" as Lydia was 6 months or so pregnant when the marriage took place.

Is it reasonable to suggest that William perhaps was working for the Downes family (perhaps as an apprentice tailor) when he was attracted to their daughter and William was regarded as persona non gratis and was kicked out after Lydia died? Perhaps the truth will never actually come to light, but I would still like to find out more if I could.

The marriage witnesses were John Downes (Lydia's brother) and a Mary Wyam. William signed the register, Lydia made her mark.

Alan

[Milliepede]

as the certificate does not show the father as deceased, that James was alive at that time.

This a common misconception I'm afraid.  Fathers were named but it wasn't always noted if they were deceased or not - even if they were - so you can't assume your James was still alive 

In addition illegitimate children often "made up" a fathers name and occupation for respectability when they got married so maybe there is no James grocer.

[Milliepede]

Even more of a long shot but what about the William Lloyd married to Hannah by 1851 with a young son Daniel 1. 

Just thinking as William is 28 and Hannah 22 he could have been widowed and remarried 

He's a shoe maker though not a tailor. 

[Tall Al]

Hi Millipede,

Thanks for your thoughts.

If James (Grocer) was fictitious, then I think I have reached the end of the line. The William/Hannah possibility doesn't hold water as his parents were William and Lea(h) and can be found on the earlier censuses - that William (and his father) were shoemakers in the 1841 listings.

Alan