Charles WILSON Sarah WATSON convict Sarah BOND Ireland Lincs Tas NSW Qld

[majm]

Also,  may I mention that Jas CLARK as per the 1860 d.c. could not be a son of Josephine WILSON.  Josephine married in 1875, and likely she would have been only FOUR years of age in 1860.

JM

[majm]

Just to indicate how popular the surname of WILSON was during 19th and into 20th Century in NSW … here's a married couple Kate and Thomas WILSON, with descendants ...   

17 November 1915 at Greenwell Point NSW A Catherine WILSON died.  Her husband had died there in December 1904.   He was a chap by the name of Thomas WILSON, aged about 60, so born about same time as Thomas, a son of our OP’s Charles and Sarah WILSON…   Greenwell Point’s electoral roll for 1902 shows many of the men with occupations such as fisherman, mate of dredge, seaman, oysterman, boatman … NONE were named Thomas WILSON.  It was not compulsory to enrol.   

See the newspaper cuttings of several IMs for names of children and grandchildren for the couple here  https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/14723758 SMH 12 Dec 1905 and
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/15692407  SMH 17 Nov 1916.


NSW BDM ONLINE INDEX
1904 Thomas A WILSON, parents given names NOT recorded, died aged 60 years, registered Nowra district, #14297
1915 Catherine WILSON, parents as John and Mary, registered Nowra district #17067

Also
Mrs S WILSON, dressmaker was at 328 Castlereagh St, SYDNEY as per Sands 1861 Directory.   That same directory lists THREE chaps in Sydney CBD, plus ONE at Balmain and ONE at Manly with the name Thomas WILSON. 

JM

[searchr]

Thanks for the extras.
sorry about the son of Josephine idea (was a bit exasperated at the time)
We know the parents of the children born/ bp in Tasmania & of Josephine.
Australia b & bp on family search and find my past has 2 more born to those parents: George & Rosanna. It's only Henrietta that's uncertain.
Also, young Charles's m has the same parents listed on Australia marriages on family search & FindMyPast.
I haven't found any more yet re Henrietta's b or anyone else's marriage.
About Sarah's literacy, I looked again at the marriage of Charles Wilson & Sarah Watson. https://linctas.ent.sirsidynix.net.au/client/en_AU/names/search/results?qu=wilson&qf=NI_INDEX%09Record+type%09Marriages%09Marriages&qf=PUBDATE%09Year%091816-1856%091816-1856&rw=156&st=PA&isd=true

It seems weird because to me it all looks to be written by the one person.

[majm]

Hi

Nothing weird ... it is not unusual at all. Yes all in the one hand.  That image is not the original clergy register. 

 It shows that Charles made his mark, and, by default, we learn that  Sarah has signed.

JM

[majm]

.....
Australia b & bp on family search and find my past has 2 more born to those parents: George & Rosanna. It's only Henrietta that's uncertain.
Also, young Charles's m has the same parents listed on Australia marriages on family search & FindMyPast.....

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTDR-GFH : 28 January 2020
George, baptised NSW, 17 May 1853, parents as Charles WILSON and Sarah BOND. And At NSW BDM online index this is Volume 70, line 1523 (of 1852 – so born 1852, baptised 1853).   Volume 70 is Roman Catholic Baptisms
Find My Past’s Database has some FLAWED infor but also it has a possible ‘new’ fact
They have the Denomination as Roman Catholic for George
^{Registration District} as Sofala  (JM mentions this later in this post)
^{Father’s first name} as Charles
^{Mother’s first name} as Sarah (JM notes it does NOT give her maiden name)
^{Registration number} –
^{Volume reference} V18521523 70
^{Record set} New South Wales Births
^{Sub Category} Civil Births  (JM notes this is flawed info)



https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTD6-16X : 28 January 2020
Rosanna, baptised St James,  Sydney NSW 1 Sept 1854, parents as Charles WILSON and Sarah BOND.   
At NSW BDM online index this is Volume 71, line 1738 (of 1854). Volume 71 is Roman Catholic Baptisms.
Find My Past’s Database has for this baptism is FLAWED they have this as
^Denomination Church of England,
^{Registration district,} Sydney, St Phillips
^{Father’s first name} Charles
^{Mother’s first name} Sarah
^{Registration number} –
^{Volume Reference} V18541738 71
and parents as Charles and Sarah
^{Record Set} New South Wales Births
^{Sub Category} Civil Births
 
Civil registration did NOT commence in NSW until 1856.

Flaws creep in when two or more existing indexes are merged with each other and the technocrat setting up the merge ‘guesses’ that two or more ‘columns’ with similar looking data can be ‘merged’ together.   FindMyPast is not the only organisation making a mishmash of the NSW BDM online indexes … NSW BDM makes a fine mish mash of their own indexes ‘all by themselves’  … So too Ancestry, and so too the CDs from earlier decades ….

But somewhere along the line there is something on the actual parish record of the baptism of George in 1853 that mentions ‘Sofala’ …. And that causes me to say ‘GOLD FIELDS’ …  The actual record held by NSW BDM should also give names of sponsors as Volume 70 is definitely Roman Catholic, and the usual ‘abode’ for Charles and hopefully his occupation.   It MAY give Sarah’s maiden name.  https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/archives/collections-and-research/guides-and-indexes/births-deaths-and-marriages-registers-1787-1856   I will also mention that the LDS seem to be actively transcribing and indexing some registers at the moment, or perhaps completed and are currently uploading.   I have included the date in the live link for the family search index entry for George and same for Rosanna.   I am absolutely certain that Volume 71 is NOT Church of England.  I am absolutely certain that both the Roman Catholic Church and the Church of England Church continue to have parishes in their respective Diocese’ of Sydney that are named St James.   

JM   I will look for young Charles marriage later. 

[searchr]

Thanks.
This is the find my past entry I found for George:https://www.findmypast.com.au/transcript?id=R_546611262

and this one for Rosanna:https://www.findmypast.com.au/transcript?id=R_546616539

In the Rosanna one it has Victoria, but residing NSW. Both have Bond for mother's surname.
Are these different from yours?

[majm]

Thanks.
This is the find my past entry I found for George:https://www.findmypast.com.au/transcript?id=R_546611262

and this one for Rosanna:https://www.findmypast.com.au/transcript?id=R_546616539

In the Rosanna one it has Victoria, but residing NSW. Both have Bond for mother's surname.
Are these different from yours?

   

I have already posted my own transcriptions of the info i found at FindMyPast.  I have just rechecked, NO mention of Victoria on the transcription that FindMyPast has uploaded that I offered a transcription on.      But ...

I have found ANOTHER transcription at FindMyPast.  It too is FLAWED.  It has NO reference number within their transcription, but it does have Victoria mentioned as a state...  ummm.... in 1854 Victoria was a Colony.  Anyway it has NOT provided any reference number to lead anyone back to the actual primary source to check the accuracy of their transcription, but it states 'This collection includes records from 1792 to 1981. It is not necessarily intended to index any specific set of records and is not complete for any particular place or region.'
 

You need to consider seeking out the actual document/s that these indexes have relied on. 

So for example some of the FindMyPast indexes do include the Volume Reference no. for 'death' in 1854 of an infant named Rosanna WILSON - or perhaps for TWO infants of that name....  Although I am fairly confident that it is for just one burial, and that one or both references are basically transmitted summaries provided to the Diocese Head Office.  Again I mention that the civil registration of 'deaths' in NSW does not commence until civil registration commenced in 1856. 
 
  I am confident that the reference no. V1854777143 is for a BURIAL record and that the reference no. FindMyPast is using is actually a NSW BDM reference no. where the V refers to a NSW BDM volume, and 143 is that volume, and 1854 is the year of burial and 777 is the likely line number.   
I can also see that FindMyPast has a further 'death'   'apparently' for another infant, also named as Rosanna WILSON also in 1854, and with the Volume reference as V18542622119.  So I am confident it too is for a burial and is found in Volume 119 of the NSW BDM set of Early Church Records and it would be line 2622 of that volume.  And I expect that the entry in Volume 119 is likely to be a transmitted record, sent through the then usual process from clergy to their Diocese head office ... and so recorded at local parish register and again at Diocese level 

So basically it is quite possible that when FindMyPast put together their database of their collection that someone has presumed that the V in the reference number is V for Victoria, if so, they have been mistaken.  It is V for Volume, but I can assure you there are people gainfully employed at NSW BDM call centres who have been allowed to 'guess' that the V is V for Vital.      and so all sorts of factoidal twaddles and urban myths have made a real mishmash of the quest to seek out actual records. 

JM  I have edited this to correct some grammar etc.  NSW AEDST 9.00 a.m.

[majm]

Do you have Thomas' marriage cert?  If so, what date, and where, and denomination, plus what info is recorded there that he provided about himself and his parent/s...    

JM

 

[searchr]

think my head is spinning!
don't have Thomas's certificate
Do you mean buy those documents?