Birth lookup

[Sue Greene]

Can we back up a little please.

Is this the 1871 Census you have?

Sarah Ann Brooks 52 Widow born Oldham
Mary Ann Brooks 17 born Hulme****
George Brooks   15
Ara Brooks   14
Hi Trish,
Yes that is my Sarah and Mary Ann Brooks.
Mary Ann Brookes married William Joseph Broomhead 25 Dec 1875 in Hulme. Mary Ann was aged 22 a spinster living at 8 Riga Street. Her father was James Brookes, occupation weaver.
It is on this certificate that Mary Ann's surname is spelt as Brookes. Mary Ann signed with her X mark.
One of the witnesses was an Esther Brookes also signed with her X mark. Could be a relation. I have looked for an Esther Brookes in the past but couldn't find any sort of a connection. But then I have not looked again for some years.
Mary Ann died 1914 and was buried on the 28 March 1914. I was lucky enough to find her headstone on find a grave though it is not a very good photo plus the headstone looks like it could with a good clean.
I have been a little lucky with find a grave but most of my family are buried in the Southern Cemetery which no longer exists. All the headstones were removed and turned into a park. Sad for genealogists today.
Cheers
Sue

When/where/who did Mary Ann marry?
Does her M/C has her Father as James?

Trish

[Sue Greene]

Could be a brother of Sarah.

1851: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SG57-6Q7

Thanks Jamjar. Will keep it in mind.
Cheers
Sue

[Jamjar]

So, this is not Sarah Dunkerley/Brooks, mother of Lees and Eda, in 1871.

Jamjar

[Annette7]

The 2 witnesses to Mary Ann's marriage on 25/12/1875 were Jacob Humphreys and, as already mentioned, Esther Brookes.   This couple married each other just 1 week later on 1/1/1876 and Esther shows her father as James Brookes, deceased.

I feel absolutely sure that these 2 were sisters - however, I'm having just as many problems finding births/baptisms and on census as before.

Possibly found Esther in 1871 living in another household as a lodger in Manchester. 

One thing I keep coming back to is this:

1861 Census - Chorlton upon Medlock

Mary Brooks    Widow.    32     Framing Tenter Cotton Mill     b. Stockport, Cheshire
Esther Brooks  9 (incorrectly transcribed as Catherine on FindMyPast)       ditto
Mary A. Brooks  7                                                                     ditto

Yes, all 3 are shown as born Stockport but if the 2 girls were just infants when they moved to Chorlton when they grew up they may not have realised they'd been born in Stockport.

I also found a baptism on 15/4/1855 Manchester for an Esther Brooks, dau. of James and Mary.  It's just a transcript on FindMyPast and no idea which church it was, nor the occupation of James.   Was hoping to find Mary Ann baptised at the same time (late baptism for both) but no joy.

Forgot to note exact details but found a Mary married to a James in Stockport in 1851 - no children yet, think it may have been under Brook on Ancestry.  Sure she was a Tenter.

Maybe some red herrings here but my gut instinct is that Mary Ann and Esther - both with a father James per their marriages - are sisters and the 1861 census above is the only one I can find with possibly the 2 girls together.

Will leave this to you to ponder.

Annette

   

[Annette7]

Just found James Brooks 23   Weaver    son of Thomas Brooks, farmer and Mary Hough 24  dau. of Jeremiah Hough, Iron Dresser married 24/12/1850 Manchester.

Births shows Esther Brooks Jun.qtr.1851 Chorlton - mmn Hough, and Mary Ann Brooks Mar.1854 Chorlton - mmn Hough.   So both girls born Chorlton and not Stockport.

Feel sure this is the right family.

Annette

[Sue Greene]

The 2 witnesses to Mary Ann's marriage on 25/12/1875 were Jacob Humphreys and, as already mentioned, Esther Brookes.   This couple married each other just 1 week later on 1/1/1876 and Esther shows her father as James Brookes, deceased.

I feel absolutely sure that these 2 were sisters - however, I'm having just as many problems finding births/baptisms and on census as before.

Possibly found Esther in 1871 living in another household as a lodger in Manchester. 

One thing I keep coming back to is this:

1861 Census - Chorlton upon Medlock

Mary Brooks    Widow.    32     Framing Tenter Cotton Mill     b. Stockport, Cheshire
Esther Brooks  9 (incorrectly transcribed as Catherine on FindMyPast)       ditto
Mary A. Brooks  7                                                                     ditto

Yes, all 3 are shown as born Stockport but if the 2 girls were just infants when they moved to Chorlton when they grew up they may not have realised they'd been born in Stockport.

I also found a baptism on 15/4/1855 Manchester for an Esther Brooks, dau. of James and Mary.  It's just a transcript on FindMyPast and no idea which church it was, nor the occupation of James.   Was hoping to find Mary Ann baptised at the same time (late baptism for both) but no joy.

Forgot to note exact details but found a Mary married to a James in Stockport in 1851 - no children yet, think it may have been under Brook on Ancestry.  Sure she was a Tenter.

Maybe some red herrings here but my gut instinct is that Mary Ann and Esther - both with a father James per their marriages - are sisters and the 1861 census above is the only one I can find with possibly the 2 girls together.

Will leave this to you to ponder.
Hi Annette,
You beat me to it. I was about to go and have another look to see if I could find anything on the Esther.
Thank you for doing that. Gosh it is food for thought.
I will need to go through it again and go back and see what I can find. If anything.
Perhaps it is the wrong family I have been tracing. I might try doing a search of the census by just the Chr. names Brookes/Brooks could be transcribed as something totally different.
Funny how names keep popping up. On the 1851 census in the household above the Brooks family is a Jane Humphreys mother-in-law Edward Lees. The name Lees pops up in the Brooks family children as a Chr. name and the surname Humphrey's pops up as a witness to William and Mary Ann's marriage. Only reason I never mentioned him as the other witness didn't think the name would come into thought he might just be a friend or someone off the street to witness the marriage. After all they did marry on the 25 Dec. William most likely picked that date to make it easy for him to remember when he got married.
Might be back to the drawing board after all.
Thank you everyone for all your wonderful help.
Sue

[Jamjar]

I can’t see a Brooks/Hough birth on GRO for George - there is a Thomas, though - who should be on the 1861 census.

Ara - heaven knows what that should really be - should be on 1861, too.

Jamjar

[Sue Greene]

Just found James Brooks 23   Weaver    son of Thomas Brooks, farmer and Mary Hough 24  dau. of Jeremiah Hough, Iron Dresser married 24/12/1850 Manchester.

Births shows Esther Brooks Jun.qtr.1851 Chorlton - mmn Hough, and Mary Ann Brooks Mar.1854 Chorlton - mmn Hough.   So both girls born Chorlton and not Stockport.

Feel sure this is the right family.
Hi Annette,
Oh that is looking more like it.
I have just found the marriage entry of Esther Brooks and Jacob Humphreys on Family search.
Has the actual page on Family search. She is 22 when she marries, she is living in Duke Street. The interesting thing is the Broomhead's were also living in and a round Duke Street.
One of the witnesses is Mary Ann Brookes, she has signed the page not used her X mark but then she could have learnt to sign her name.
But the other thing is she would have been Mary Ann Broomhead by then. Perhaps she had forgotten she had a new surname, after all it was only a week after her own marriage.
I need to go have some tea then come back and go through everything and see where this all leads to next
Thank you so much
Sue

Annette

[Ladyhawk]

Can we back up a little please.

Is this the 1871 Census you have?

Sarah Ann Brooks 52 Widow born Oldham
Mary Ann Brooks 17 born Hulme****
George Brooks   15
Ara Brooks   14

When/where/who did Mary Ann marry?
Does her M/C has her Father as James?

Yes that is my Sarah and Mary Ann Brooks.

Mary Ann Brookes married William Joseph Broomhead 25 Dec 1875 in Hulme.

Mary Ann was aged 22 a spinster living at 8 Riga Street. Her father was James Brookes, occupation weaver.

It is on this certificate that Mary Ann's surname is spelt as Brookes.

Mary Ann signed with her X mark.

One of the witnesses was an Esther Brookes also signed with her X mark.

Could be a relation. I have looked for an Esther Brookes in the past but couldn't find any sort of a connection. But then I have not looked again for some years.

James Brooks 23   Weaver    son of Thomas Brooks, farmer and
Mary Hough 24  dau. of Jeremiah Hough, Iron Dresser married 24/12/1850 Manchester.

Births shows
Esther Brooks Jun.qtr.1851 Chorlton - mmn Hough, and
Mary Ann Brooks Mar.1854 Chorlton - mmn Hough.   
So both girls born Chorlton and not Stockport.

One thing I keep coming back to is this:

1861 Census - Chorlton upon Medlock

Mary Brooks    Widow.    32     Framing Tenter Cotton Mill     b. Stockport, Cheshire
Esther Brooks  9 (incorrectly transcribed as Catherine on FindMyPast)       ditto
Mary A. Brooks  7                                                                     ditto

Well found Annette

On 1881 census Mary Ann Broomhead pob  is given as C of M Manchester

The 2 witnesses to Mary Ann's marriage on 25/12/1875 were Jacob Humphreys and, as already mentioned, Esther Brookes.   This couple married each other just 1 week later on 1/1/1876 and Esther shows her father as James Brookes, deceased.

The 1876 marriage mentioned above Esther Brookes signs her name and as you mentioned one of the witnesses is a Mary Ann BROOKES, she also signs her name - could it be the mother of Mary Ann Broomhead & Esther's  or perhaps a sister in law