Marriage Cert - Helen Smith and Charles Berry

[chempat]

Just putting 1901 family:
Charles Berry   38  Leith
Ellen Berry   33  Bathgate
Ellen Berry   16
James Berry   13
John Berry   5
Winefred Berry   1

[RJ_Paton]

Although the 1901 census lists Ellens birthplace as Bathgate there is one possible Ellen Smith born 1863 in Leith Ref 692/2 805
   

[Annette7]

I've found Ellen Smiths birth entry (on Ancestry) as born 27/5/1864 Bathgate, dau. of James Smith and Helen Martin.   Mother's name ties in with details on the 1884 marriage certificate.

Annette

[Annette7]

The Charles Barry mentioned by chempat in 1871 census - his birth is 14/6/1861 Leith, son of James Barry and Mary Connor??   This is a switch of the surnames on 1884 marriage certificate??

Annette

[chempat]

In 1881 census living at Dunn's Buildings Low Dykehead, Hamilton, Lanarkshire
John Howie   45  Berwick  coalminer
Mary Helen Howie   35   Berwick
Ann Ferris   19   stepdau
Charlotte Ferris   14    stepdau
Daurathy Howie   6    dau  England
Mary F Howie   4 Mo   dau  Hamilton
Charles Berrie   19 lodger coalminer  Edinburgh

Interesting about the switch in surnames.

[CourtneyP]

Have found the marriage on SP - found it by searching for marriage of Ellen Smith and just one in West Calder to a Charles Connor.

As stated on dau's birth certificate they married 28/12/1884 West Calder in Roman Catholic Church.   Charles Connor is shown as 21, son of James Connor, Baker (deceased) and Mary nee Berry.   Ellen Smith 20, dau. of ………. Smith, Labourer and Helen Smith nee Martin.

So you have some more unravelling to do - was Charles born before parents marriage as Berry or as Connor and for whatever reason reverted to his mothers maiden name?

As to Ellen - she doesn't seem to know her fathers Christian name and don't know if her birth was registered as Smith or Martin.   

Annette

Wow Annette thank you!!

This changes a lot. I’m going to have to do some more research now on the Connor side of the family.

Another question that you might be able to help with. Their daughter Winifred Berry married Charles Brown on 25th March 1927 in Alva and they had four children - Charles, John, Samuel and Helen (my grandma).

Based on photos I have it seems John and Charles may have been born before they were married, but I may be judging the ages wrong.

Are you able to find any information on their two sons Charles and John?

Samuel was born in 1931 and passed in 1932 in Glasgow, and Helen was born in 1934 in Glasgow.

Thank you,
Courtney

[RJ_Paton]

I've found Ellen Smiths birth entry (on Ancestry) as born 27/5/1864 Bathgate, dau. of James Smith and Helen Martin.   Mother's name ties in with details on the 1884 marriage certificate.

Annette

Unfortunately there is no Ellen Smith listed on SP as born in Bathgate around that date BUT there is
a Helen Smith Ref  662/ 290 born Bathgate 1864
   

[chempat]

Along with Helen Smith born Bathgate, 1864, with the same parents is an Agnes Smith born 14th September 1866.

Also, not at Bathgate but Falkirk, Ann Smith 18th January 1860.  All from IGI.

To help confirm family in censuses.

Added:
In 1871
James Smith   35  coalminer
Ellen Smith   29  Lauriston
Ann Smith   11   Lauriston
Ellen Smith   7   Bathgate
Agnes Smith   4    Bathgate

[Annette7]

I've found Ellen Smiths birth entry (on Ancestry) as born 27/5/1864 Bathgate, dau. of James Smith and Helen Martin.   Mother's name ties in with details on the 1884 marriage certificate.

Annette

Unfortunately there is no Ellen Smith listed on SP as born in Bathgate around that date BUT there is
a Helen Smith Ref  662/ 290 born Bathgate 1864
   

Apologies - should have said Helen was the name at birth, not Ellen.

Annette