Can’t trace grandmother

[McKelvieClan]

Hi
I cannot trace my grandmothers birth. My grandmother had 5 children.  One child died aged 20 years.

Her first two children I obtained eldest child’s marriage certificate and death certificate of second child she gives one maiden name. 
On my grandmothers wedding certificate, death certificate and on my mother’s birth certificate she gives a different maiden name. The names of grandmothers parents I cannot find their wedding certificate but if I take their first names and the first maiden name given there was a marriage between these two.  I cannot trace her other two siblings.  My mother was the third child, so I can’t trace child 4 or 5. 

On my grandmothers wedding certificate one of the witnesses was called by the second maiden name and for some reason she has taken her name.  The witness I have tried to trace her background and if I take her first name and the first maiden name I can only find a birth, no marriage or death certificate.    She is two years older than my grandmother.  Driving me mad!

I am thinking possible adoption of my grandmother and perhaps illegitimacy of first two children?  Any help gratefully received.  I am awaiting eldest children’s birth certificates.

[Forfarian]

Hi Shirley, and welcome to RootsChat

In cases of illegitimacy the child could be known by its mother's maiden surname, its father's surname, or the surname(s) of its mother's subsequent husband(s). There were no hard-and-fast rules, and it's not unusual to find a child listed by one surname in one census but by a different name in the next census. Generally speaking, I tend to believe the information on a marriage certificate when it conflicts with information on a death certificate, because the person who registered the death may not have all the correct information.

Without actual names and dates it's impossible to comment on the specific case of your grandmother. However as you probably know we are not permitted to discuss details of anyone who is or may still be alive.

Within these constraints, what more can you tell us? For example, the details on your grandmother's marriage and death certificates and that of the child who died?

[McKelvieClan]

Thank you for replying. 

According to grandmother’s marriage certificate she married in 1938 at a non religious wedding at the Sheriff of Institute in Glasgow. 

I could not find first child (my aunty) birth register under the same surname as my mother.   I have found a birth registered aunty’s first name and the first maiden name of grandmother and this birth predates my grandmothers wedding by 3 years. 

On my aunt’s wedding certificate her age is one year before her mother’s wedding, and this year date is on her death entry (I have not received her death certificate yet). She  married in church and banns were put up would she not have had to produce a birth certificate in order to get married in church. I can’t find any christening details.  She was married in the Church of Scotland in 1960.

Next sibling was a male born in 1938.  This year would tie in with my mother saying there was 4 years between them.  Difficulty finding find his birth but he was called Ian, nothing under that name  but if I type in name of the fathers father there is a birth of that year under that name and in area. Ordered that birth certificate. 

Third child died 1960 aged 20.  The person present and registered death  was her brother at it looks like the initials would tie up with the grandfathers name. I am unaware what details are on this aunts birth certificate awaiting post.

My mother is next.  This is where the different mother’s maiden name comes from. 

Fifth child I have received one wrong birth certificate for him.  Awaiting another one that hopefully will tie in with my mother’s details.  This child registered grandmothers death and he put down same names as my mother’s details. 

These births occurred very close together 1937?, 1938, 1939, 1943 and 1945.  Grandmother lived in Glasgow once married but each child was born in a different part of Scotland, it’s all in the Campsie area.  Her husband was a salesman and went off to war and never came back.  Were their army barracks they would have lived in hence the different birth places.  They were married in Glasgow.

Her possible parents with the first maiden name are from Campsie.  My mother never spoke of cousins or aunties on her mother’s side. 

Another twist there is a birth same year with a different first name but the middle and last name are the same as my  grandmothers  the parents names are different although the surname is the same and it puts her in the area of Glasgow where she was married.  Born 1910.  Could these be her parents? 

Absolutely flummoxed!

[Forfarian]

Anything is possible, but without names I can't suggest anything other than very general comments.

Ian is a variant of John - many men known as Ia(i)n are registered as John.

If your aunt was born four years before Ian, that would be in 1933/1934 and you will struggle to find baptism records online, or in fact anywhere else. Baptisms as recent as that are usually still with the individual kirks, so you need to know which kirk a child was baptised in in order to find the record.

[McKelvieClan]

Thanks for your reply.  I don’t know if I have posted this in correct part of site.  I posted here because I thought they all came from Ayrshire but I think it’s Glasgow.  I know they lived in Glasgow.  I have an address but that part of census has not been released. 

[Forfarian]

You can ask a Moderator to move it to the Lanark forum.

[McKelvieClan]

I have an update. This gets weirder.  I posted the witness section of my grandmothers wedding certificate on the handwriting forum as I could not read it all and it looks like the wedding was conducted in front of a Charles Browne son.  Whose son? 

Charles Browne is unknown to our family.  Can’t find birth certificate for him. 

Here is what I know.

Grandmother was 26 when married in 1938.  She was a spinster.  Her address is different from her husbands, so she was not living with him.  Charles Browne is living at a different address to bride and groom and to the other witness.  Parents on the wedding certificate father dead, mother still alive.  Can’t find wedding certificate for her mother and father, can’t find grsndmothers birth details.  Any ideas? 

[Forfarian]

Can’t find wedding certificate for her mother and father, can’t find grsndmothers birth details.  Any ideas?

Yes. Post here, on this thread, extracts from all the certificates you have, showing all the names that are puzzling you. We cannot even attempt to help look for your grandmother's birth if we don't know her name, or who she claims her parents were.

[[Ray]]

Hi       


The witnesses may be "professionals" ie regular volunteer/stand-in witnesses used if no other available.     
You should check other weddings in the register either side of the one you have shown in order to see if that is the case.     

The "S" from "Son" could be correct, but it may also be the surname of the Witness.     
Example (plucked from nowhere) "Voir" / "Vorm"  / "John" 

The Bride and Groom may very well be living together and have given their family addresses for "appearance purposes"     


R