1881 census Ontario, then where did they go.

[mjadco1]

J.J.
Thanks for your time and effort anyway.
Regards
Margaret

[J.J.]

I see what you mean about the 1901...

there are 3 areas named York... you need to click on the blue links
to see household...but doesn't seem to mention where from?

http://www.automatedgenealogy.com/census/cache/index.html

[J.J.]

http://www.automatedgenealogy.com/census/cache/index.html

using the above link, go to the surnames rather than the area, as all may have moved
and then look for your roberts names under all of Canada. There are over a thousand...and Unfortunately, there will probably be no listings for your ladies as they have probably married, but  I could not find Robert or abel or Eliz. in Ontario...... perhaps this is not fully transcribed...

J.J.

[mjadco1]

J.J.
I agree, it is all rather difficult.
It seems rather strange that Abel was shown as getting married in Toronto in 1883, but true he could have moved on., but then there is the death of Elizabeth in 1892 Toronto, as per attached help, and why did the Canadian census only show Robert, Elizabeth and Baby Robert? What happened to the girls, you would also have thought Abel would have been shown with them, also both daughters.
Thanks for your time anyway.
Margaret

[J.J.]

I hate to tell you this, but I did find an article while searching for
the location of the district "St. John's Ward"...and they called
it a "receiving area for the poor". Perhaps another relative was
helping them with the children...Other than that I could not find a
map or anything to help me find this ward...Perhaps just these repeated
postings, with the names will find a knowlegeable searcher who can help


I also found an abel on the british 1881... b. 1860, but he was from  Denbigh, Wales


    

[mjadco1]

J.J.
The name Abel and Roberts were extremely common in Wales, as his father came from Wales I presume he was named with the homeland in mind, but he was definitely born in  West Derby, Liverpool.
I am not to sure about them being a poor family, he was after all a book-keeper, he surely should have done his sums a bit better than that!!!!
Thanks for your help
Margaret

[J.J.]

Oh, Sorry, I didn't mean to insult.  I wish that I could have found something.
It must be very frustrating trying to find this information. Like many needles in
a haystack!
J.J.

[tommytoronto]

well- on the 1901 canadian index, there is there is an Anne Roberts and an Annie Roberts, both fitting the age that Abel's wife would be.  There is always the possibility that he passed away. 

Here is a link to a map of St John's in 1862.  Our boundaries for the wards dont; change until the names do ( they chnage to wards 1, 2, 3 etc in about 1890's....) 

http://www.ontarioroots.com/images/maps/1862/1862_st_john.jpg

I am heading away for a week - but I will gladly do some lookups here for you when I get back.  It  is doubtful there are too many Abel Roberts in Toronto - and we have death indexes available at the archives until 1932.  I can also look up - or if someone else here does before I get back - Elizabeth's death certificate.  That will give her status of marriage at death (whether a widow), and may give burial place.... 

Certificates in Ontario are held at the archiives on film up to a certain point.  They are at 1908 for births, 1924 for marriages and 1932 for deaths, each year this goes up by 1.  HOWEVER - there is no access to any indexes after these times either.  This is just for Ontario.  We do not have a federal (national) registrar per se.  BMD's are the responsibility of each province. 

If you go to

www.tpl.toronto.com

and click on the search magazines, newspapers, etc

enter as a guest, and open the genealogy folder, and search the digital collection.  They hold city directories up to 1881 digitally for Toronto - and these can be accessed from any computer!!!   Your Robert J Roberts in the 1881 directory is on page 390, and is a bookkeeper living at 48 Terauly.  You'll find that on your map of St John ward.  That is now a part of Bay Street - and would be part of the location of our New City Hall ( built in 1867).  That really wasn't that bad a part of town in 1881  :-)

Anyways - any help that I can be to you - or anyone needing help or advice about Toronto, that would be why I chose the nickname "TommyToronto"  :-)

Tom


P.S. - There is a "pages of the past" paid service to view old Toronto Star's online - however - they did not start publishing until 1894, and I find the obituary section to be fairly scarce, until the mid 1910-1920's.

[MJP]

Hi Margaret,

Have you considered that the girls were left behind in England?  I just took a quick look at the 1881 British census at familysearch.com.  For example, I found an Elizabeth E. Roberts, b. Liverpool, age 16, listed as a servant in the HAWORTH household.  The Grandmother HAWORTH was born, interestingly, in Denbigh.  (Perhaps she was left in the "care" of family friends?) I also found a 16-year-old Elizabeth Roberts as Head of a household with her siblings John, Mary A. (age 13 - right age) and Winefred.  Unfortunately, Elizabeth and Mary Roberts are fairly common names.  But with your knowledge of the family, you might be able to better identify the likely possibilities.  I could find no mention of Abel though.  Just a thought...

Good luck!

Martha