The Black and Tans

[lindylou2_2002]

I have been told my Grandfather Claude Vivien Turner born 1892 Islington London died 1966 in Bromley Kent.
Who was a soldier in WW1 then went to Ireland and became a black and Tan (so called apparently as the didn't have either enough black or Tan coloured uniforms. but I can't find out where the records for the black and tans would be held. I have found a little infomation about them But not very much at all. Any help would be great.

The little I know about them:
The Black and Tans as a subject still arouses controversy in Ireland. The Black and Tans were mostly former soldiers brought into Ireland by the government in London after 1918 to assist the Royal Irish  Constabulary (RIC) in their work.
In 1919, the British government advertised for men who were willing to "face a rough and dangerous task". Many former British army soldiers had come back from Western Europe and did not find a land fit for heroes. They came back to unemployment and few firms needed men whose primary skill was fighting in war. Therefore, there were plenty of ex-servicemen who were willing to reply to the government’s advert. For many the sole attraction was not political or national pride – it was simply money. The men got paid ten shillings a day. They got three months training before being sent to Ireland. The first unit arrived in Ireland in March 1920.

[liverpool annie]

Hi Lindylou!!

I'm not sure who would hold the records but maybe this site would hold a few answers - or if not answers - would steer you in the right direction!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_and_Tans

I would try the RIC - (if you haven't already )

http://www.esatclear.ie/~ric/

Apparently the records for the RIC are at Kew -  but you might also try the Irish

National Archives!

http://www.nationalarchives.ie/

Annie

[OldBraggs]

The records of the Black and Tans were (conveniently) destroyed during the Blitz in WWII. They were an auxiliary force to the RIC and mostly ex-servicemen who had fought in WWI. As such they were battle-hardened and reacted to terrorism in the only way they knew how - extreme force. As such they were ill suited for the work.

Steve

[chenwil]

Hi Lindylou

I haven't had much luck either finding anything on them other than general history...my grandfather had to leave ireland in a hurry in the late 1920's early 30's...why was a subject never to be discussed....2 years ago my told me it was because grampa was a B&T...

I had heard the records were destroyed and that any luck finding anything was RIC records or RUC ones...

I'll keep you in mind if i ever have any luck..

[caclancy]

Hello Lindylou. How are you doing? I might have some possible links that might help or steer you in the direction you are looking for.
While I was researching my Clancy ancesters I found out that they were involved in the IRA and also fought against the black and tans. The following sutes might help you on your search of your ancestors or at the very least the history behind it all.

 > British regiments
    http://www.regiments.org/regiments/uk/depot/1856.htm

>The Land Forces of Britain and the Commonwealth
    http://www.regiments.org/regiments/uk/lists/bargxrefn.htm

> British Army http://www.army.mod.uk/fusiliers/battalions/1st_battalion/history_of_the_regiment/the_twentieth_of_foot.htm

>The British Legion
   http://britishlegion.org

There were alot of fighting between the IRA and the Black and  Tans during 2 big events in the 2 countries conflicts. Looking up info on these 2 events might also help youe search.


> The Easter Rebellion Of 1916

> Bloody Sunday 1920 ( 3 major events surround Bloody Sunday in November 1920)

It is likely that one main Irish figure will keep popping up and that might be Micheal Collins.
Also if you go to a site written by an Irishman you might not get a whole picture or the Irish view of things.

I have alot more sites if you are interested and if I come across your ancesters name I'll let you know.

Happy Hunting
                     caclancy
   

[caclancy]

Hi again Lindylou.  I have another site for you that might be more helpful than the other ones I sent you.

>> Cyndi's List - UK military
       http://www.cyndislist.com/miluk.htm

This site is a connection to many other sites to pick and choose from.  I always go to Cyndi's List for the great connection to many different interests.  Happy Hunting!!

[Shropshire Lass]

Hi Lindylou

Having family from the west coast of Ireland, I have the story from the other side.  The Black and Tans, it was claimed in the family stories, were mostly criminals who had been offered service in Ireland instead of going to prison.  As a young woman, my grandmother would spend hours perched up on the thatched roof of their home, on the look-out for the B&Ts while the "boys" (the early IRA) were given the chance to eat, wash and change clothes and get any medical treatment.  The B&Ts were seen as a brutal, almost evil, force.

Monica

[UKgirl]

From today's Independent:

Legacy of the Black and Tans
http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article1171379.ece

From the BBC, more about the film "The Wind That Shakes The Barley":

Loach film wins top Cannes prize (Palme d'Or)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/5025812.stm

Loach revisits Irish struggle
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/4993956.stm

UKgirl