Author Topic: Attempting to identify a cousin in New York 1921 - John Grey  (Read 1702 times)

Offline brynjon

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Attempting to identify a cousin in New York 1921 - John Grey
« on: Saturday 28 March 20 21:48 GMT (UK) »
Hello again - whilst searching for the many travels of my great aunts from Sunderland UK to New York in the early part of the 20th century I came across a visit to a cousin John Grey in 1921 - document attached.

I am unaware of the link to the family though anyone that could have helped are already beyond the sun.

I cannot locate any John Grey on the Ellis Island list though I did find a John Grey married to an English lady Frances and a son John Jnr. born in the UK approximately 1887 which ties in very well with the age of my Aunt Margaret b 1885 in Sunderland.

I attach part of a 1920 census with the John and Frances, however, the address differs from the 1921 Sailing manifest also attached.

I would be extremely grateful if anyone can she some light onto my unknown relation John Grey.

My two aunts Margaret Wood b1885 and her sister Sarah Jane Wood b1883 travelled extensively to the USA in their role as nurses to the Pulitzer, Strauss and ET Gerry amongst others. My gt uncle John Wood also migrated to New York but died in January 1927 and his body returned to Sunderland by ship.

I would love to learn of relatives in the USA and put to rest anecdotal tales that no one can as yet verify. Best regards - Bryn Jones (Sunderland UK)
WOOD - Sunderland descendants of Thomas WOOD Master Mariner - b1805 in Stockton and Jane HORNSBY.

CLARK - Forebears - my great grandparents George Alexander CLARK (Mariner) born app 1879 Aberdeen married Sunderland 1904 to Florence Colvet BRADLEY b abt 1882 in Australia
KNAPP (Mariners) - ex of Kent moving to Seaham.
APPLEBY - Seaham Harbour (Children of Great x 2 Uncle John (boat owner) inc. Sir Alfred Appleby moved away).

JONES - Seaham Harbour Great Grandfather Thomas Emrys JONES b1868

Offline oldohiohome

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Re: Attempting to identify a cousin in New York 1921 - John Grey
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 28 March 20 23:02 GMT (UK) »
Their first son John was born in England. Can you find his birth?

Offline oldohiohome

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Re: Attempting to identify a cousin in New York 1921 - John Grey
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 28 March 20 23:10 GMT (UK) »
1910
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M5MG-2M7

edit to add
1900
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MSND-PVV

birthplaces seem to change a bit. in 1910, the son John was said to be born in NY.
in 1900, both the father John and the son John  are said to be born in England.


Offline oldohiohome

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Re: Attempting to identify a cousin in New York 1921 - John Grey
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 28 March 20 23:27 GMT (UK) »
Three of the children's births. All say mother's maiden name was Emma Fanny Hurl. Father's birthplace varies. Which is strange, since you'd think he or the mother was providing the information on a birth record. So maybe Fannie wasn't sure where John was born.

Charles James Gray, Brooklyn
18 Jun 1888
father John Stamford Gray, born in Brooklyn
mother Emma Fanny Hurl Gray, born in England
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2WQ5-3BG

Flossie Veronica, 10 Apr 1890, Manhattan
father born in US
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2WM5-VJF

Alice 23 Jan 1901, Brooklyn
father born in England
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2WD7-BSS

Offline oldohiohome

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Re: Attempting to identify a cousin in New York 1921 - John Grey
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 28 March 20 23:45 GMT (UK) »
I was working on the assumption that your great aunts were actually cousins of John's wife Fanny, since John's own birth was often recorded as in the US, but Fanny's was always in England.

So I looked for Emma Fanny Hurl and found this, which puts her at the other end of the island from Sunderland. So I'd guess she is not your aunts' cousin.
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1871 Census Knaphill, Woking, Surrey, England
Emma F Hurl, age 10, born Beanlien Rails Boldes Hampshire England

in household of Isaac Hurl 37, Emily Hurl 33

--------
1861 Hampshire
as Emma Fanny Berges/Borges in household of Isaac and Emily Hurl

--------
births
3rd Qtr 1860, Lymington, Hampshire
Emma Fanny Hurl

Offline oldohiohome

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Re: Attempting to identify a cousin in New York 1921 - John Grey
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 28 March 20 23:55 GMT (UK) »
John and family were in Brooklyn in 1905 and 1925. Both times he said he was born in the US.

from Social Security applications:
Their daughter Florence married a man named Herrick.
Their daughter Alice Beatrice married a man named Corbett.

In case the surnames ring a bell from family stories.

Offline oldohiohome

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Re: Attempting to identify a cousin in New York 1921 - John Grey
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 29 March 20 00:06 GMT (UK) »
John had a copyright on something he published. It's too bad it doesn't say where he was born and his parents' names. :)

Catalog of Copyright Entries, Part 1, Volume 14, Issues 1-3, 1917
found at Google books by starting at Google and looking for "john stanford grey, new york"

Offline oldohiohome

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Re: Attempting to identify a cousin in New York 1921 - John Grey
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 29 March 20 00:17 GMT (UK) »
1940 Census 260 Linden Blvd, Brooklyn (I think), Kings County at any rate

John Grey, 53, born in New York
Fanny Grey, mother, 81, widowed, born in England
lived in same house in 1935

Offline oldohiohome

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Re: Attempting to identify a cousin in New York 1921 - John Grey
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 29 March 20 00:28 GMT (UK) »
John S Grey
Birth    unknown
Death    13 Feb 1929
Burial    Holy Cross Cemetery
Brooklyn, Kings County (Brooklyn), New York, USA
Plot Diamond Square, System: CEM, Section: DIAM, Row: C, Plot: 130

note at findagrave: Gravesite Details Death date is interment date.

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/172941349

Fanny Grey
Birth    unknown
Death    11 Sep 1953
Burial Holy Cross Cemetery
Brooklyn, Kings County (Brooklyn), New York, USA
Plot Diamond Square, System: CEM, Section: DIAM, Row: C, Plot: 130

note at findagrave: Gravesite Details Death date is interment date.

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/172941343/fanny-grey

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Holy Cross is a Catholic Cemetery, if that helps rule them out or keeps them in as relatives.

So you have an approx. death date for both, but I don't know how available the NY Death records are. Rules vary from state to state. Their death records should have a space for parents' names. Whether they will be filled in correctly is anyone's guess.

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John S Grey is elusive before 1900. The best bet for tying them to Sunderland might be the birth record for their son John G who sometimes says he was born in England, sometimes in the US.