Where is this? #25 Mock Tudor House

[DavidG02]

Thank you DB10 - well made points

As I completely missed those houses in the background - can we glean any information on what seems to be the dominant white colours of those dwellings?

[arthurk]

DB10 - thank you for all the points you make, but for me they raise a few questions:

I think we are looking at a major extension to an originally fairly large building - probably Victorian in origin. There are so many differences in style as shown in the attached pics that lead me to believe that the original building was a C shape with a large verandah entrance between two wings.
The original building had no timbering at first floor while the presumed "extension" has extensive timbering (Mock Tudor) which might place it as Edwardian. Also the roof lines are totally wrong if this was a one off build.

I think they were changing the frontage to be the large porticoed entrance shown in the top pic which meant creating a more sweeping drive into that facade of he building.

This original building fronted on to a "road" which at that time was unmade but you can see evidence of a road edge running across the original "frontage".

I see what you mean about changing the frontage, but if the original entrance (under the verandah) was facing the road, is it likely that when creating an even grander house they would move the main entrance round the side, where it couldn't be seen from the road?

I also take your point about the mixture of styles, but wasn't there sometimes a tendency (Arts and Crafts movement???) to build things to look as though they'd grown organically over time, even though this wasn't the case?

I don't think it was in "the middle of nowhere" as you can see evidence of a large shadow to the left, which I think can only be another building, and evidence of roof lines to the right.

In the bottom pic you can also see evidence of a pole and cables which are running parallel to the road which would indicate that this is not a remote location.

I'm not sure about the shadow, as I would then expect to see some evidence of the other building in the first picture, which is taken from a bit further away. It would also, I think, mean that the new portico entrance would be facing this other building rather than the road - a bit unlikely?

Thank you for pointing out the other buildings in the distance on the right. The picture I'm now getting is of (possibly) a house on rising ground, perhaps overlooking an estuary or flood plain, with other houses lower down and a rough road leading up to it.

But that still doesn't explain to me why they might move the main entrance to face away from the road - unless perhaps the opposite side of the road was about to be developed and there was still a good outlook to the side.

Further thoughts on this (and your site plan!) would be most welcome.

[janan]

Adding to what has said and combining with my own theory of this being a school or college:

This might be a private Victorian villa being extended to form a school/college
The front half might remain as the principals dwelling house
The new crenellated portico would be the entrance to the school/college
The church tower and window is the new school/college
The absence of any previous garden can be explained by the extensive building works
There may be some terraced gardens on the sloping side of the building (right of the original frontage) that we can't see

None of these thoughts are terribly helpful in locating the building

[Karen McDonald]

I can see what some of you mean about houses off to the right in the second picture, but I'm not convinced. I still think it's building material. Possibly a long pile of bricks or timbers, with packs/chunks of something pale/white (insulation) stacked on top in a number of places.

The perspective feels wrong for it to be houses down the side of a hill.

But that's just my 2 penn'th... 

It is weird that there is absolutely nothing in the way of plants, shrubs or trees. The grassy area is, however, cropped, which makes me think it is either an animal field or the location is so exposed to the (coastal) weather that nothing really grows. (I'm thinking exposed clifftop location.)

Hmmm... 

Eastery greetings,
Karen

[DB10]

Hi all, sorry have been in the garden all afternoon - isolating of course ....

Loving the debate that has been going on.

First let me say I'm having trouble with my drawing programmes as I don't have access to my usual software so cant produce a legible plan at the moment but I am working on it - watch this space.

Authurk - I was intrigued by your comments about changing the frontage and took a more careful look at the side elevation. As you rightly point out why would you change the main frontage away from the road - if we agree that is what it is. So having looked in more detail at the side elevation I am now moving towards this being two separate buildings.
I think you can see separation between the front (original) building, which has extensions built on, and the "new" build to the rear of that.

The "chapel" which appears to be between the two is really interesting as I think you can see separation between that and the "new" build.

So maybe we have an original building being extended and a new build to the back not directly connected to the original.

In between the two there appears to be "the chapel" as suggested by IgorStrav which now seems to me to be the most important issue to resolve. Why would you have a chapel in a private home.

Janan suggests a school/college but might I might muddy the water a bit more and throw into the ring - Monastery/Nunnery??

Any way as I say loving the debate - even if we never find the location - and I will work with the software I have and (eventually) produce some graphics for further discussion.

Stay safe

DB10

[Old Bristolian]

I think DB has made excellent suggestions concerning the building, and I agree that there is probably another building in the distance, possibly a large one like the main subject. I would think that the setting has the sea on one side and a river/estuary on the other (directly behind the photographer in bith photos), so we are looking at a seaside development of large properties for the wealthy. Perhaps the ground is so bare because it was previously grazing land (sheep/cattle) but I'm always amazed by some older pictures which show how free of trees and shrub many areas were, compare with today.

I don't get the feel of an institution at all - I feel it could be a speculative development, which perhaps a customer who didn't like this particular property as it was, asked for changes and extensions in a mock Tudor style, whereas the original was plainer. No idea on area at all.

Steve

[Little Nell]

The house is gaining an extra lower floor - look at the far left in picture 1.  There is another set of windows below the level of those on the right.  So the main house is on an area of ground that appears to be higher than its surroundings.

The 'stuff' on the right hand side which might or might not be buildings or building supplies.  I'm not sure that when this house was being built/extended that they thought to put insulation in and if they did, did it come packed as we might be used to seeing today?

I can understand the line of thinking about it being an extension - strange roof-lines and the square tower perhaps indicating old plus new.  But looking at other Arts & Craft movement houses, square towers and differing styles of windows and roof-lines do happen even in houses built in one go.  Take a look at Standen House (granted all the chimneys there appear to be same design) or the Red House.  Both have towers, lots of different styles of windows.

Spidermonkey - any clues about the age of the photo?

Nell

[DB10]

Actually Spidermonkey Little Nell makes a great point about the original photos - any chance of higher res images - that would make it much easier to differentiate the fine detail which we are all talking about.......

Agreed Little Nell the Victorian/Edwardian builders did not understand the need for insulation - anywhere.

DB10

[Karen McDonald]

The 'stuff' on the right hand side which might or might not be buildings or building supplies.  I'm not sure that when this house was being built/extended that they thought to put insulation in and if they did, did it come packed as we might be used to seeing today?

Nell

I didn't mean blocks of Ytong or packs of polystyrene boards.   
(Unless, of course, Spidermonkey has deliverately "aged" a new photo and we are looking at piles of modern building materials.  )
In the 2nd picture, there are definitely big, angular stacks/blocks/packs of something very pale in colour, piled up in front of the entrance. What might that be? 

I keep looking at the dark, angular area there, too. What could possibly appear to be a roof/roofs further away and downhill is, I think, something in front of the entrance. I was wondering whether it was simply a long, neat pile of bricks.

Also (maybe DB10 can answer this one), why are there supports propping up the ground-floor window in the 2nd photo? OK, I'm not a builder, but I've seen enough windows being replaced in my time and I was wondering why the window would need support from outside. 

I would also love to know what the white areas are under that window. Signs? The builder's details?

The tower/chapel continues to interest me, too. Can anyone see (better than I can) whether the arch-topped window to the right of the tower in Pic. 1 actually has a stepped form, or is there a crenelated wall in front of it? It the window does have that form, it would be rather unusual.

Following on from DB's extremely interesting comments, I found this property on the Internet:

http://www.wightagents.co.uk/property/print.aspx?pics=true&id=48996

I wondered whether our mystery building started off more along those lines..?

Ponder, ponder...

Karen