Author Topic: Old Country Houses of the Old Glasgow Gentry  (Read 1929 times)

Offline Skoosh

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Re: Old Country Houses of the Old Glasgow Gentry
« Reply #9 on: Thursday 16 April 20 15:15 BST (UK) »
Rena, I'm more familiar with Crumm's as the shop on the High Street/George street,  that fixed Hoovers!  ;D

Skoosh.

Offline Rena

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Re: Old Country Houses of the Old Glasgow Gentry
« Reply #10 on: Thursday 16 April 20 21:24 BST (UK) »
Rena, I'm more familiar with Crumm's as the shop on the High Street/George street,  that fixed Hoovers!  ;D

Skoosh.

A couple of decades ago I travelled back home for a school reunion.  One woman remembered me from our first day at school when I introduced myself to the teacher as "Rena Crum without the 'b'".   Roll forward a few decades and I find that when my ancestors moved along the Clyde to Dunbartonshire, they did have a "b" in the Dunbartonshire old parish baptism records :-)

. and when I eventually found sibling Robert and his family in Ayrshire - they were the "Crumbie" family.
Aberdeen: Findlay-Shirras,McCarthy: MidLothian: Mason,Telford,Darling,Cruikshanks,Bennett,Sime, Bell: Lanarks:Crum, Brown, MacKenzie,Cameron, Glen, Millar; Ross: Urray:Mackenzie:  Moray: Findlay; Marshall/Marischell: Perthshire: Brown Ferguson: Wales: McCarthy, Thomas: England: Almond, Askin, Dodson, Well(es). Harrison, Maw, McCarthy, Munford, Pye, Shearing, Smith, Smythe, Speight, Strike, Wallis/Wallace, Ward, Wells;Germany: Flamme,Ehlers, Bielstein, Germer, Mohlm, Reupke

Offline Skoosh

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Re: Old Country Houses of the Old Glasgow Gentry
« Reply #11 on: Thursday 16 April 20 23:05 BST (UK) »
I have an m too many Rena!  ;D

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Offline Rena

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Re: Old Country Houses of the Old Glasgow Gentry
« Reply #12 on: Friday 17 April 20 23:08 BST (UK) »
I have an m too many Rena!  ;D

Skoosh.

I made a mistake when I thought all surnames with the stem "Crum" arrived on the West Coast via Dunbartonshire, as I've found a really early surname with the double "mm".   It's in the Fifeshire Parish record in the 1500s and is the surname "Crummities".   Could the spelling reflect the Fife dialect for people who originated in Cromartie ( = Ross & Cromarty)

My understanding of the word "Crum"/"Krum" (the latter found as a place name in Saxon Germay) is a farm/field where the river bends  "Crum" = "crooked" and "Crumbie" is the Viking ending of "bie"/"by" for farm.  Lots of places in Viking Yorkshire with "by" as the ending.

There's usually a few more letters after a double letter =
fun - funny.  I suspect your Crumm or the padre changed the spelling for some reason. - maybe the early ancestor made a better living than his siblings/father and changed the surname as a visible sign, or couldn't be bothered to write the full spelling lol  :D.
Aberdeen: Findlay-Shirras,McCarthy: MidLothian: Mason,Telford,Darling,Cruikshanks,Bennett,Sime, Bell: Lanarks:Crum, Brown, MacKenzie,Cameron, Glen, Millar; Ross: Urray:Mackenzie:  Moray: Findlay; Marshall/Marischell: Perthshire: Brown Ferguson: Wales: McCarthy, Thomas: England: Almond, Askin, Dodson, Well(es). Harrison, Maw, McCarthy, Munford, Pye, Shearing, Smith, Smythe, Speight, Strike, Wallis/Wallace, Ward, Wells;Germany: Flamme,Ehlers, Bielstein, Germer, Mohlm, Reupke


Online Forfarian

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Re: Old Country Houses of the Old Glasgow Gentry
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 18 April 20 09:48 BST (UK) »
Please don't read any significance into spelling. 'Correct' spelling is a relatively recent concept, dating from the end of the 19th century. Some clerks would write Crum, and others would write Crumm.

G F Black's The Surnames of Scotland says that Crum and Crumb, derived from Macilchrum, were common in Dumbarton in the 17th and 18th centuries, and that Crumme or Crummy may have been from lands belonging to the Abbey of Culross.

He also refers to Crom, Crome, Cromy, Crum, Cromb and Croume, mostly in Aberdeenshire, and to Crombie, from the place in the parish of Auchterless.

John Milne's Celtic Place Names of Aberdeenshire says that Crombie is derived from Gaelic crom meaning bent or crooked, but he does not say anything about the suffix -bie.

Black also says that MacIlchrum is from Mac Gille chruim (this is unidiomatic in Gaelic and should read Mac a'ghille chruim) which means 'son of the bent lad'. There was a family of Macdonalds who were in Benderloch for 300 years known as Clann-a-Chruim, but he does not cite any references to the name without the M(a)c- prefix.

There is no shortage of place names containing the Gaelic element crom, so there is no need to look to Saxony for its origin.

In my tree I have a John Crum married to Marion Meiklan Waddell. Two of their sons married daughters of Campbell Paterson, who invented Camp Coffee. Also an Erskine Crum who married a relative of mine.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline Lodger

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Re: Old Country Houses of the Old Glasgow Gentry
« Reply #14 on: Saturday 18 April 20 12:00 BST (UK) »
There are Crummie's, Crumley''s and McCrum's buried in Cambusnethan cemetery in Wishaw (darkest Lanarkshire).
Paterson, Torrance, Gilchrist - Hamilton Lanarkshire. 
McCallum - Oban, McKechnie - Ross of Mull Argyll.
Scrim - Perthshire. 
Liddell - Polmont,
Binnie - Muiravonside Stirlingshire.
Curran, McCafferty, Stevenson, McCue - Co Donegal
Gibbons, Weldon - Co Mayo.
Devlin - Co Tyrone.
Leonard - County Donegal & Glasgow.

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Re: Old Country Houses of the Old Glasgow Gentry
« Reply #15 on: Saturday 18 April 20 12:23 BST (UK) »
I was a bit disappointed that the list doesn't include some houses I would have been interested in, for example Stonefield. Is there another volume, perhaps, with a different selection of houses?
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline Skoosh

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Re: Old Country Houses of the Old Glasgow Gentry
« Reply #16 on: Saturday 18 April 20 14:11 BST (UK) »
There are two editions FF but I think that site covers both? the houses hereabouts are also absent. The subscribers to both editions are listed at the end, maybe they had to pay a fee to have their properties included & this covered the cost of publication. "No dough-no show!"

Another site here on the sugar aristocracy who took over when the tobacco lords companies hit the buffers at the American Revolution,

https://glasgowwestindies.wordpress.com/2018/11/24/the-old-country-houses-of-the-glasgow-sugar-aristocracy/

Skoosh.

The Heathery Bar Lodger, just the wanst! An urchin booted the bar door & shouted in "Bangla Deesh ya bas!  ;D So not yesterday!

Offline Lodger

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Re: Old Country Houses of the Old Glasgow Gentry
« Reply #17 on: Saturday 18 April 20 18:53 BST (UK) »
The Heathery Bar Lodger, just the wanst! An urchin booted the bar door & shouted in "Bangla Deesh ya bas!  ;D So not yesterday.

Showing your age now Skoosh, the Heathery is long gone. I think it's been converted into houses.
Paterson, Torrance, Gilchrist - Hamilton Lanarkshire. 
McCallum - Oban, McKechnie - Ross of Mull Argyll.
Scrim - Perthshire. 
Liddell - Polmont,
Binnie - Muiravonside Stirlingshire.
Curran, McCafferty, Stevenson, McCue - Co Donegal
Gibbons, Weldon - Co Mayo.
Devlin - Co Tyrone.
Leonard - County Donegal & Glasgow.