Author Topic: Rhyl pre world war 2 Vale Rd information re:gypsy site  (Read 1192 times)

Offline Carybeth

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Rhyl pre world war 2 Vale Rd information re:gypsy site
« on: Sunday 19 April 20 00:03 BST (UK) »
Can anyone help please.I am doing some research for someone but am at a dead end. On a certificate that been ordered from GRO it gives an address of Vale Rd of the parent of a child and when I have googled it, there was now a day nursery there. Does anyone know how long there was a gypsy caravan site there for please.

Offline barryd

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Re: Rhyl pre world war 2 Vale Rd information re:gypsy site
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 19 April 20 04:55 BST (UK) »
Seems to be now owned or occupied by Royal Mail.

https://rhyl.cylex-uk.co.uk/company/royal-mail-15683108.html

Offline Ruskie

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Re: Rhyl pre world war 2 Vale Rd information re:gypsy site
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 19 April 20 06:30 BST (UK) »
What leads you to believe there was a gypsy site there?

This map is showing a school:
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=17&lat=53.31835&lon=-3.48476&layers=10&right=BingHyb

Unless there was something in the newspapers of the time, I'm not sure there would have been anything documented about Gypsy caravan sites, and it is probably not within living memory.  :-\

Depending on what you are looking for might the 1939 register help?


Offline wilcoxon

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Re: Rhyl pre world war 2 Vale Rd information re:gypsy site
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 19 April 20 09:57 BST (UK) »
Is there a surname. That might help, were the family travellers .
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Offline wilcoxon

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Re: Rhyl pre world war 2 Vale Rd information re:gypsy site
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 19 April 20 11:18 BST (UK) »
Yes there  was, and   appx 1943 ,  families known  to have lived there were Boswell and Wilson. The area is now Glan Aber pensioners housing on Vale Road.  This information is from a Rhyl History site.
Hope this helps.
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Offline Talacharn

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Re: Rhyl pre world war 2 Vale Rd information re:gypsy site
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 19 April 20 11:38 BST (UK) »
I have been following a family of travellers in South Wales and know how difficult it is (Evans, Williams, Boswell and Lee) especialy as they married between families. When you talk about encampments, most gathered in places for a weekend or a week and then moved to the next. Those places are unlikely to be recorded. During the winter months, they tended to form larger gatherings, often close to industry where they worked; tin rolling mills or coal mining. I have pieced information together through newspapers, often court appearances for fighting or theft. But also to establish their ‘real’ name, as the name they were using was often not the one they were born with. Because of stigma, some adopted Welsh sounding surnames. Especially the Boswells!

Looking at the map offered, there is an area of land next to the school that could have acted as a temporary encampment. Were there links to the permanent fun fair? If so, they could be resident, possibly with large events during the year where many more would gather. There are older newspaper articles about gypsies in Rhyl. One of 1899 mentions, a Grand Complimentary Concert will be given on the above date by the Famous Rhyl Gypsies and Madame Marie Williamson. Another talks of Gypsies arriving from Epping Forest.

Offline wilcoxon

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Re: Rhyl pre world war 2 Vale Rd information re:gypsy site
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 19 April 20 11:42 BST (UK) »
Ruskie is pretty close with the map. I`ve been told it was next to the "cuts" which are little  further down.
 It was at the top right of this photo and you can see that the oval  shape of the road  in the middle is very similar.
Photo with permission of the Rhyl group
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Offline Ruskie

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Re: Rhyl pre world war 2 Vale Rd information re:gypsy site
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 19 April 20 12:45 BST (UK) »
Ruskie is pretty close with the map. I`ve been told it was next to the "cuts" which are little  further down.
 It was at the top right of this photo and you can see that the oval  shape of the road  in the middle is very similar.
Photo with permission of the Rhyl group

Funny you should mention The Cut. I initially thought that the location of the camp might have been beside The Cut on the same side of the road as the School and the Church. I changed my mind when I realized that "No 2" is likely to have been closer to the Bridge and the High Street (as it currently is) - I thought the street numbering probably started at that end of Vale Road.

I would think it unlikely that a Gypsy "camp" would have the address "2 Vale Road". What event occurred at that address pre WW2?

Offline Talacharn

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Re: Rhyl pre world war 2 Vale Rd information re:gypsy site
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 19 April 20 15:50 BST (UK) »
Using Family Search, the only Boswell I can find in 1911, with Rhyl named is:
1911 Census: Rhyl, Denbighshire
John Sandeman Boswell . 12 (Est 1899) . School . Boarder . Ashbourne, Derbyshire
RG14 . Piece/Folio: 293 . Schedule Type: 235
Affiliate Record Identifier: GBC/1911/RG14/34127/0293/11

No 2 will not be a gypsy encampment, but after WW1, travelling families were stopping that tradition to have a fixed base. During WW2 there would be less opportunity to travel. Even if they lived in a house, they would still be considered gypsy. Who was living there in 1939?