John Angus 1831

[faystaub]

Advice on my brick wall welcomed!
I am looking for parents of my g g grandfather John Angus b. 1831 (age at death 29 Sept 1882 was 51). I have found links on Ancestry placing his birth as Monymusk, Aberdeenshire however I am never confident in the accuracy and parents listed in some of the trees do not fit information on the register of death.
Death register is all I have to go on and states - Pauper at death, former farm servant, Married to Catherine George and also states illegitimate. Mother is named as Mary Angus and father ________ Angus (reputed father). Information on death register was provided by his son John Angus.
I am not sure if I will crack this one, but I keep trying. Thank you for any advice on where to from here or any information/connections.
Cheers Fay

[Forfarian]

In the 1881 census, at Little Itlaw, are
John Angus, 50, born Monymusk
Catherine Angus, 51, born Botriphnie
Annie Angus, daughter, 10, born Marnoch
John Angus, grandson, 8, born Rothiemay

In 1871 John Angus, 37, born Monymusk, is in Marnoch with wife Catherine and William, Alexander, Adam, James and Ann.

In 1861 John Angus, 26, married, born Monymusk, is in the household of Jane Robertson at Hillhead, Huntly.

In 1851 John Angus, nephew, aged 17, born Monymusk, is in the household of John Angus, blacksmith and farmer, aged 40, born Monymusk, at Glennie House, Rothiemay.

In 1841 John Angus, 5 is with John Angus, 25, both born outside the census county at Gleniehouse, Rothiemay.

John Angus, aged 58, mother's maiden surname Stephen, died in Marnoch in 1869. John Angus and Helen Stephen were married in Monymusk in 1795, and had a daughter Jean baptised there in 1802, so there is a good chance that thay are also the parents of Mary Angus and grandparents of your John Angus.

So every census from 1851 to 1881 says he was born in Monymusk, and his uncle was also born in Monymusk.

His age varies a bit, however, suggesting that his date of birth could be any time between 1830 and 1836.

Your best chance of finding out anything more about his birth is the Kirk Session records, if they have survived. See https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=825881.0 for discussion of this.

I note with interest that there is a Mary Angus, aged 35, at Upper Cullie, Monymusk, in the 1841 census, with a child James Innes, aged under 1 year. Could this be your Mary, I wonder?

[Forfarian]

Upper Coullie, Monymusk https://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NJ7016
Glennie, Rothiemay https://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NJ5849
Little Itlaw, Alvah https://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NJ6756

[flst]

Forfarian, you are correct. That is the correct Mary. Mary Angus married James McDonald on 2 Dec 1847. You will find them in the censuses. Mary died 15th May 1881 at Chapel of Garioch. Hope this helps.
flst

[flst]

Another avenue to consider is poor relief records. As John was a pauper at the time of death there is a good chance he claimed poor relief. This is usually claimed through his parish of birth. Luckily the records do survive for Monymusk. The application form for poor relief gives a lot of information.
flst

[faystaub]

Thank you very much, I have considered Mary Angus with James Innes many times. I have a feeling my John was boarded out with other family members and perhaps it is him with the Uncle around age 10.
You have both given me some avenues to check and see if I can strike a match. I have been lost in the register of death with not being sure if mother is an Angus or if father is an Angus and the mother has taken that name on.

I will look further and see where I can go with your suggestions. Greatly appreciated.
Fay

[Forfarian]

Thank you very much, I have considered Mary Angus with James Innes many times. I have a feeling my John was boarded out with other family members and perhaps it is him with the Uncle around age 10.

Just bear in mind that he was aged 5 in the 1841 census, suggesting he was born in 1835 or 1836, and 50 in 1881, suggesting he was born in 1830 or 1831.

I have been lost in the register of death with not being sure if mother is an Angus or if father is an Angus and the mother has taken that name on.

I doubt if she had 'taken it on'.   

John seems to have been brought up from ann early age by his uncle and aunt in Rothiemay. Mary Angus married, lived  and died in Chapel of Garioch, which isn't exactly near Rothiemay in 19th century terms, at least until the railway from Keith to Aberdeen opened in 1854. So he may barely have known his mother at all.

John's son John may only have known that his grandmother's given name was Mary Angus. If he had known that his grandmother was the wife of James McDonald, he should have said that she was Mary McDonald, maiden surname Angus. And he may have been guessing at the identity of his grandfather, or he may have known that his grandfather and grandmother had the same surname, though they were not married to one another.

I think the fact that John is described as 'nephew' to John Angus in the 1851 census is reasonably good evidence for Mary Angus or McDonald being his mother.

[faystaub]

Thank you, valuable information and it making sense and filling gaps for me.
I have also in further research stumbled upon a family tree that has this same Mary Angus daughter of John Angus and Helen Stephen, connected to a John Angus b. 1804 Kennethmont, Aberdeenshire or Kinsthman, Aberdeenshire - d. 2 April 1872 St Nicholas, Aberdeenshire.

Is it possible looking at this information that she may have 'çonnected' with an unrelated Angus with my John being the result?

I see the plausibility in my Johns son only knowing the Angus surname for his grandmother and not having had any interaction with her using Angus rather than McDonald on the death register,

Cheers Fay

[Forfarian]

Thank you, valuable information and it making sense and filling gaps for me.
I have also in further research stumbled upon a family tree that has this same Mary Angus daughter of John Angus and Helen Stephen, connected to a John Angus b. 1804 Kennethmont, Aberdeenshire or Kinsthman, Aberdeenshire - d. 2 April 1872 St Nicholas, Aberdeenshire.

You need to look at that death certificate, and also at the one quoted by flst on 15 May 1881 in Chapel of Garioch - they can't both be correct.

And yes, Kennethmont or Kinnethmont is a parish in Aberdeenshire.

Is it possible looking at this information that she may have 'çonnected' with an unrelated Angus with my John being the result?

Yes.