Author Topic: Esther Glover c1765 Rainford - 5 illegitimate Children?  (Read 5396 times)

Offline annajane

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Re: Esther Glover c1765 Rainford - 5 illegitimate Children?
« Reply #27 on: Saturday 26 November 22 14:55 GMT (UK) »
Quote
I have not checked Catholic records and to be honest, wouldn't know where to start.  I have a lot of Catholic lines, mainly from Ireland, but this doesn't appear to be one.  Always open to more research though.

If you could point me in the right direction, if you're able to, I'll try and follow up on that suggestion.

For a long time I was lost as to where to look as well. Then I came upon this guide. https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/catholics/ It is full of useful links and information.

From 1559 to 1829, England did not allow the Catholic faith. Anyone who did not worship in a Church of England church was persecuted.

Between 1754 and 1837 it was a legal requirement to marry the Church of England. So even when the formal emancipation ended, Catholics were still being punished. Records kept by priests were often on small pieces of paper or in notebooks that could be destroyed if they were investigated.

Catholic nobility lost money, land and buildings. But from what I've found along the way, I believe they were supportive of the local community. Often, private catholic chapels were available to workers.

There's a lot of information to find. I've only just scratched the surface. If you find a Henry Glover b. around 1811 near Chorley or Atherton in your Catholic research, please send me the information. He is my 4th great grandfather who only put his name on one daughter's marriage document in 1870. I have a few dots and hardly any concrete connections.

Online brigidmac

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Re: Esther Glover c1765 Rainford - 5 illegitimate Children?
« Reply #28 on: Saturday 26 November 22 15:27 GMT (UK) »
Amongdog how did you find the affiliation orders on ancestry
Which section I mean

Is it the record of the order or the full document ?
Thanks
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Offline KitCarson

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Re: Esther Glover c1765 Rainford - 5 illegitimate Children?
« Reply #29 on: Saturday 26 November 22 15:45 GMT (UK) »
Have you put Pilkington and culshaw in the name search of your DNA shared matches  as they are unusual names it would be significant if you have DNA matches to anyone with them on their trees
And private searchable trees would also show  this up .

Sometimes you can find names on DNA matches with unlinked trees but to do this you'd have to look at the shared matches oof shared matches you know connect to Sarah Glover
I hadn't thought to do that and have just done so.  Pilkington is quite a prominent name in the St Helens, Lancs area.  Yes, it has brought up quite a number of low level cM matches related to my Paternal Aunt b. 1927 and no longer with us.  I'll check them out as well as Culshaw.

Thanks for all the advice.

Slow slog for me as I still work full-time and don't get an awful lot of time to research.

Kit
Rimmer/Appleton/Ashcroft: St Helens, Lancs // Cul(le)y:St Helens & Little Bolton // Stott: Huyton Quarry & Sutton, Lancs
Carson:Belfast? & St Helens // Kelly:Mullingar, West Meath? & St Helens // Ronan: Ferns, Wexford & St Helens // Daley:Oranmore & Athenry, Co Galway //
Cunningham: Heworth, Gateshead & Widnes & St Helens, originating Ireland
Edgar: Bellie, Moray // Anderson: Selkirk // Rutherford: Hobkirk, Roxburghshire //
Stewart: Angus // Watson: Moray & Jamaica // Watt: Cairnie

Offline KitCarson

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Re: Esther Glover c1765 Rainford - 5 illegitimate Children?
« Reply #30 on: Saturday 26 November 22 15:46 GMT (UK) »
The affiliation orders for Mary Glover / James Pilkington 4 August 1789  and Betty (Elizabeth) /James Culshaw 24 July 1800 are on ancestry.
Very much appreciated.  I'll try and check them out.

Also, I'll follow up on Brigidmac's advice to search on those 2 surnames.

Wish me luck  :)

Kit
Rimmer/Appleton/Ashcroft: St Helens, Lancs // Cul(le)y:St Helens & Little Bolton // Stott: Huyton Quarry & Sutton, Lancs
Carson:Belfast? & St Helens // Kelly:Mullingar, West Meath? & St Helens // Ronan: Ferns, Wexford & St Helens // Daley:Oranmore & Athenry, Co Galway //
Cunningham: Heworth, Gateshead & Widnes & St Helens, originating Ireland
Edgar: Bellie, Moray // Anderson: Selkirk // Rutherford: Hobkirk, Roxburghshire //
Stewart: Angus // Watson: Moray & Jamaica // Watt: Cairnie


Online brigidmac

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Re: Esther Glover c1765 Rainford - 5 illegitimate Children?
« Reply #31 on: Saturday 26 November 22 15:55 GMT (UK) »
Kit I found those affiliation orders on ancestry they are under. Lancashire Quarter session
In court land and legal section

I think it says James CULSHAW.  was a weaver and PILKINGTON a husbandman both had to pay for the lying in and a shilling a week for near future
+ That Esther is a single woman
I suppose if Esther had got married they may have been allowed to stop paying

Last sentence is interesting ...why is it proved on the oath of John HOUGHTON?
Roberts,Fellman.Macdermid smith jones,Bloch,Irvine,Hallis Stevenson

Offline KitCarson

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Re: Esther Glover c1765 Rainford - 5 illegitimate Children?
« Reply #32 on: Saturday 26 November 22 17:09 GMT (UK) »
Bridgid, thank you so much for the image.  Unfortunately, I don't know what 'proved' by John Houghton would mean in these circumstances and for this document.  Thanks for identifying the records.  I could maybe find other children of unmarried mothers in my tree there.  He is mentioned in BOTH records.  Wish me luck.

Bethanyyd96 - mentioned a possible marriage to a John Houghton back in 2020.  I found him as a School Teacher in Census and I discounted that, as he was of reasonably high standing in the community.  Maybe they did marry in 1815?  This would have been after those children and she would have been in her 40s.  Maybe John was someone with high standing in the community at the time of that order to put his name to it?

I need to look for a burial for her under that name?  Another strand to follow.

I'll also take a look at those records.

Thanks all for your interest.

Apologies, as I might not always catch up with posts in a timely manner, but I appreciate your help.

Kit
Rimmer/Appleton/Ashcroft: St Helens, Lancs // Cul(le)y:St Helens & Little Bolton // Stott: Huyton Quarry & Sutton, Lancs
Carson:Belfast? & St Helens // Kelly:Mullingar, West Meath? & St Helens // Ronan: Ferns, Wexford & St Helens // Daley:Oranmore & Athenry, Co Galway //
Cunningham: Heworth, Gateshead & Widnes & St Helens, originating Ireland
Edgar: Bellie, Moray // Anderson: Selkirk // Rutherford: Hobkirk, Roxburghshire //
Stewart: Angus // Watson: Moray & Jamaica // Watt: Cairnie

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Re: Esther Glover c1765 Rainford - 5 illegitimate Children?
« Reply #33 on: Saturday 26 November 22 18:13 GMT (UK) »
Which child do you descend from and who did they marry ?

I'm enjoying looking through these old affiliation orders

Just found James CULSHAW again accused by Ann WOODS as being father of her male child not named in 1798

He may be son of Richard Parr b 1769 so CULSHAW  surname would be through his mother there's a baptism with those names
Roberts,Fellman.Macdermid smith jones,Bloch,Irvine,Hallis Stevenson

Offline KitCarson

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Re: Esther Glover c1765 Rainford - 5 illegitimate Children?
« Reply #34 on: Saturday 26 November 22 18:34 GMT (UK) »
Hi,

Mary 9 JUN 1788 is my 4xGGM.  She married Thomas Ashcroft 29 Jun 1818 St Mary The Virgin, Prescot, Lancashire, England.

Mary was the reputed daughter of James Pilkington.  Big name in Glass production in St Helens https://www.rootschat.com/links/01ryp/

Naughty James Culshaw!

Kit
Edit, it was Thomas Ashcroft, not James, I've modified my post
Rimmer/Appleton/Ashcroft: St Helens, Lancs // Cul(le)y:St Helens & Little Bolton // Stott: Huyton Quarry & Sutton, Lancs
Carson:Belfast? & St Helens // Kelly:Mullingar, West Meath? & St Helens // Ronan: Ferns, Wexford & St Helens // Daley:Oranmore & Athenry, Co Galway //
Cunningham: Heworth, Gateshead & Widnes & St Helens, originating Ireland
Edgar: Bellie, Moray // Anderson: Selkirk // Rutherford: Hobkirk, Roxburghshire //
Stewart: Angus // Watson: Moray & Jamaica // Watt: Cairnie

Online brigidmac

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Re: Esther Glover c1765 Rainford - 5 illegitimate Children?
« Reply #35 on: Saturday 26 November 22 18:52 GMT (UK) »
James PILKINGTON was taken to court again in 7 may 1794
By Rachel Dagnell for a child named William

There seems to be a printed version as well handwritten of each case

1shillimg and sixpence suggests he was on a good wage

So that's another name search for your DNA matches .

Btw I found your tree ...lovely
Personally I would add James CULSHAW + any other father's too as it might help others


Roberts,Fellman.Macdermid smith jones,Bloch,Irvine,Hallis Stevenson