Author Topic: The Hull Seamen's Orphanage 1886  (Read 561 times)

Offline RobSarge

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The Hull Seamen's Orphanage 1886
« on: Tuesday 26 May 20 18:31 BST (UK) »
Hello everyone (and Treetotal in particular)
We are trying to solve the mystery surrounding the birth of our grandfather in December 1886 in or around Hull. We know he was adopted and we now think the couple who adopted him lived in a street v close to this orphanage, at least until 1891 (when they show up in Birmingham).
Unfortunately, all paperwork relating to my grandfather (who died in 1950) was destroyed by my grandmother before she died, so we don't have a lot to go on but we feel the coincidence of the address and timing is too much of a clue to not follow up on!
He may not have been in this orphanage at all, but we are aware of a book by JD Hicks about the orphanage (and believe you have a copy Treetotal?) and wondered if there might be anything in there that could help us?
If not, if anyone has any suggestions or advice, we'd be really grateful?
Sargeant
Bell
Sempers

Offline Gibel

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Re: The Hull Seamen's Orphanage 1886
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 27 May 20 13:48 BST (UK) »
There appear to be a lot of records available about the home. I found this list on www.childrenshomes.org.uk

Hull History Centre, Worship Street, Hull HU2 8BG. Very extensive archives include Staff and administrative records (1853-1985), Application records (1857-1967), Admission registers (1866-1983), Birth and baptism certificates (1853-1938), Withdrawal register (1867-1985), Punishment book (1957-72), Photographs, Plans, News cuttings, etc.

The withdrawal register would show, I would have thought, to whom or to where he went went he left the orphanage.

Offline RobSarge

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Re: The Hull Seamen's Orphanage 1886
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 27 May 20 14:32 BST (UK) »
Thank you so much, that's really helpful.Will definitely try what you have suggested.

His adopted name was Robert Sargeant and his WWI records show his date of birth as 4/12/1886  (which we're hoping is true). We know he was in Birmingham with his adopted family in the 1891 census, so that gives us a window for adoption to check out.

Will report back as to what we find
Thanks again
Sargeant
Bell
Sempers


Offline RobSarge

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Re: The Hull Seamen's Orphanage 1886
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 27 May 20 14:54 BST (UK) »
Sorry, forgot to add that we're not local to Hull (we're in Cheshire) so it'll probably be a while before we can get over (once the Hull History Centre reopens, of course!).

Thanks again
Sargeant
Bell
Sempers

Offline BumbleB

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Re: The Hull Seamen's Orphanage 1886
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 27 May 20 17:00 BST (UK) »
Welcome!  I have sent a PM to Treetotal advising of your wish to make contact  :) :)
Transcriptions and NBI are merely finding aids.  They are NOT a substitute for original record entries.
Remember - "They'll be found when they want to be found" !!!
If you don't ask the question, you won't get an answer.
He/she who never made a mistake, never made anything.
Archbell - anywhere, any date
Kendall - WRY
Milner - WRY
Appleyard - WRY

Offline Treetotal

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Re: The Hull Seamen's Orphanage 1886
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 27 May 20 17:09 BST (UK) »
Thanks BB for the heads up  :D

Hi Rob and welcome to Rootschat..I am a Volunteer at the Carnegie Heritage Centre which is currently closed due to Covid-19. The History Centre is also closed. We do have a copy of the book that you refer to but I won't be able to get any information until we open again. If I find any information before then, I will be in touch. If you would care to give some details, we may be able to help.

Carol
CAPES Hull. KIRK  Leeds, Hull. JONES  Wales,  Lancashire. CARROLL Ireland, Lancashire, U.S.A. BROUGHTON Leicester, Goole, Hull BORRILL  Lincolnshire, Durham, Hull. GROOM  Wishbech, Hull. ANTHONY St. John's Nfld. BUCKNALL Lincolnshire, Hull. BUTT Harbour Grace, Newfoundland. PARSONS  Western Bay, Newfoundland. MONAGHAN  Ireland, U.S.A. PERRY Cheshire, Liverpool.
 
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Offline Gibel

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Re: The Hull Seamen's Orphanage 1886
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 27 May 20 22:47 BST (UK) »
What was Robertís birth name?

Offline RobSarge

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Re: The Hull Seamen's Orphanage 1886
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 28 May 20 11:14 BST (UK) »
Thank you so much, Carol, that would be fantastic. In terms of details, we don't have a lot to go on (and we don't know his birth name, Gibel and can't find a birth certificate).

According to his WWI records, his date of birth was 4/12/1886 and he was born in Hull. He was adopted by Robert Sargeant (Senior) (dob 1839 in Falmer, Sussex) and his wife Sarah Ann (nee Sempers dob 1844 in Mablethorpe), who we think lived at Ebor Terrace, Norwood Street in Hull around that time.
The family then show up on the 1891 census as living in Birmingham and my grandad, also named Robert Sargeant by this time, was with them, aged 4. So we assume he was adopted some time between Dec 1886 and the 1891 census.

Robert married my Granny, Bessie Frances Bell in 1920 in Glanford Brigg and we believe he was living with her and her parents for a while before this (not sure if that included a period before WWI but we suspect so). Granny's Mum was also a Sempers (sister of Sarah Ann).

As various members of the Bell and Sempers and Sargeant families were all living in and around Hull at the time of grandad's birth, we at first thought that perhaps Robert had been born to a family member out of wedlock and given to his adopted parents (who had no other children) and that maybe he really was Granny's cousin and that was why she destroyed all the paperwork after his death in 1950. But that now seems unlikely.

And then we realised the orphanage was just round the corner from Norwood Street and maybe Granny was just embarrassed about Robert's real origins? Robert and Bessie had two children - John (my Dad) and Marion, both now deceased. Granny told Marion on her wedding day that Robert was adopted (don't know why she chose that moment?) but I regret never following it up further with my Dad while he was still alive. Years later Marion questioned her Mum for more details but Granny refused and destroyed all papers relating to Grandad.

Anyway, it's a bit of a long shot, we know - but we'd really appreciate any help that can be offered.

Thank you both so much
Jacky
Sargeant
Bell
Sempers

Offline RobSarge

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Re: The Hull Seamen's Orphanage 1886
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 15 July 20 12:35 BST (UK) »
Hello everyone, just posting a bit of an update.

During lockdown, my brother and I printed out the names of all baby boys born in Hull in the 4th quarter of 1886 and we've been going through them to see if we can find them in the 1891 census. It's been a very laborious task (and we've not quite finished), but so far we've only found about a dozen unaccounted for (and we've only got about 3 more sheets of A4 (out of original 18 or so!) to go through.

We plan to do more detailed research on those we haven't been able to locate to try and narrow down our list further - and then we should end up with a shortlist of names that may or may not have been our grandad, Robert Sargeant. If the Hull Seamen's Orphanage doesn't throw up any joy, then I guess we'll need to look at other adoption records.

What's been fascinating (and quite sobering) is just how many of our list died in the first few years of their little lives. We take birth and babies for granted now, don't we? It's rare for a baby not to survive their first few years - but in those days, it almost seemed rarer for babies to survive than to die.

What we also discovered was that many parents called their child exactly the same name as they'd given a previous child who had died. Something we'd find very odd nowadays, I think?

Anyway, it's been a fascinating exercise - and kept both me and my brother busy during lockdown.

We're still hoping, Carol, that you may be able to help with a records search via the Carnegie Heritage Centre? And if anyone else has any tips or suggestions to help, we'd love to hear them.

Many thanks
Jacky

Sargeant
Bell
Sempers