Mary Ann THOMAS marriage bef 1839

[osprey]

the church is historic and apparently there's a memorial window to the Millards.

https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3375408/3375415/203/

http://www.narberthtenbylma.co.uk/manorbier.html

The castle is Norman and the birthplace of Gerald of Wales/Giraldus Cambrensis

[Westy11]

Very interesting Osprey and as said its very green and beautiful.  Its very soothing.
Westy

[Kay99]

This puzzle has facinated me and hopefully the birth cert will resolve it.   Had a fiddle re Edward in later years and he is listed as a carpenter at the time of his marriage in Carmarthenshire in 1865 when his address was Swansea and he uses the middle name Thomas - possibly his mother's name

Posting thoughts re Edward with surname Thomas in 1841/1851/1861 in case it is of use later and if it isn't I have had great fun looking

1861 a lodger in Wern District, Llanguick, Neath - not far from Swansea
Edward   Thomas   Lodger   Unmarried   21   Carpenter b Pembroke.

1851 a lodger at Storehouse?, Llanboidy, Narberth, Carmarthenshire
Catharine   Phillips Widow   56   Pauper Cooper's Widow b Carmarthenshire,
Thomas   Phillips 12   b Llanboidy, Carmarthenshire
Sophia   Phillips 7   b Llanboidy, Carmarthenshire
Edward   Thomas   Lodger 11   Scholar Illegimate son of  Gent b Wiston, Pembrokeshire

Loved his description as the son of a Gent and Wiston is near Haverfordwest

1841  Living at Lower Street, Llandingat, Llandovery, Carmarthenshire with the Davies family and listed as not born in county
Evan   Davies 30   Weaver
Sarah Davies 35   
David Davies 6   
John   Davies 4   
Thomas Davies 2   
Edward Thomas   2

Kay

[Westy11]

Hello Kay,

Thanks so very much for that information.   

The information has raised questions for me around the possibility of a marriage between Edward's parents. So far in this quest I have been spectacularly unsuccessful in finding any marriage.    

I'm also wondering if there would be any bastardy bonds given Edward is referred to as illegitimate?

As yet I have not located his mother in any census record and given he is not with his mother in 1841 or 1851, I wonder if she, Mary Ann THOMAS died between Edward's birth in 1839 and the 1841 census.  As yet I have not located this but having the 1841 census narrows the timeframe.

I know that Edward's father departed  from Plymouth for Australia a few months before the 1841 Census. 

Serendipitously I received Edward's birth certificate today and his parents were noted as William Bowen SCOWCROFT and Mary Ann THOMAS.  His surname was recorded as Edward SCOWCROFT [no middle name] born at Crundale in the Parish of Rudbaxton . 

Like you  I assume the "Thomas" he assumed at some point prior to his marriage in his life is his mother's surname at his birth.

More questions 

Westy

[Kay99]

I wondered as well whether the parents married

On FindMyPast I found a marriage on 19 May 1846 at Rudbaxton of Mary Ann Thomas to William Dempster both of full age - her address was Crundal and father John Thomas farmer

I think this is the couple in 1851 living in Wiston

William Dempster    28 b Wiston, Pembrokeshire  Farmer  330 acres
Mary Ann Dempster    31  Rudbaxton, Pembrokeshire
Robert Duncan Dempster    3
Elizth Sarah Dempster    2
Emma Dempster    4 Mo

[Kay99]

And this could be Mary Ann and family in 1841??  Living at Crundal

John Thomas    45  Farmer
Marianne Thomas 20
Eliza Thomas    15
Emma Thomas    15
William Thomas 12
David Thomas    9

And I think this is the same family minus Mary Ann in 1851 still at Crundal  with a large acreage

John Thomas    52  Moat. Pembrokeshire  Farmer of 150? acres
David W Thomas    19  Son
Martha Rees    22 Niece
Mary Phillips    25 Servant
Mary Griffiths    32 Servant
Edward Williams 21  Servant
John Thomas    19  Servant
Mary Shininging 33  Lodger
Margret Shininging 63
Bridget Shininging 9
Dennis Shininging 4
John Shininging 9 Mo

[Westy11]

Hello again Kay,

That's fantastic and thank you very much.

I wonder why Mary Anne is living without her son?  It just seems so curious?  I will have a look later at the Wales Archives to see if there was a Bastardy Bond for Edward.

It seems that Edward's parentage was known especially given the 1851 census notation and perhaps William [his father] was financially supporting Edward?

Most curious.

Once again thank you for getting involved in this puzzle and moving it along again.

Westy   

[Kay99]

I also wondered why Edward wasn't with his mother but couldn't find them together anywhere and I looked for ages!   If this Mary Ann is the right one -  might Edward have been fostered out that because her father had money and land with Mary Ann making a good marraige  to a man with land some years later?    

I think this Mary Ann was widowed and remarried on 3 Nov 1860 to a William Morris at Wiston and her father is described as a Gentleman!!

Kay

Pure fluke found this when the cert arrived 

[osprey]

that all looks good, Kay.

Westy11, I doubt there would be a bastardy bond, more likely a private arrangement. In which column does the name Scowcroft appear for Edward? If it's in the same one as his first name, that is not his surname, but a middle name instead. There is no surname given on a birth cert for a child, just those of the parents. It was possible at that period to have the name of the father on the cert without him being present when the parents were not married.

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=309034.0