Old car enthusiasts - Wolseley 10hp

[Meelystar]

Can anyone identify if either of the cars in the photo are a Wolseley 10hp? The photo dates to 1904.  The recent picture is of a car dating to that year.  I can see myself that they are similar to a Wolseley but are they the same? Would different coachmakers account for the differences?
Thanks
Amelia

[purlin]

looking at this advert the 7.5 hp matches up, I think!

https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/File:Im19030221AC-Wols.jpg

[Meelystar]

Great thanks Purlin! I’ve seen threads on old cars before and they do tend to look very similar to the uneducated eye!

[horselydown86]

The car on the left in the old photo definitely doesn't match the modern photo of the 10hp Wolseley.

The clue is the radiator - the red Wolseley has the radiator tank back at the dashboard (ie just in front of the driver's feet) with tubes running horizontally around the sides and front of the bonnet.  You can see four of the tubes joining the tank.  This is an older style of radiator.

The car on the left in the old photo has a more modern style of radiator, entirely at the front of the car.

Furthermore, compare the rakes of the steering columns.  It's almost vertical in both cars in the old photo, compared to a rake of around 45 - 50 degrees in the red car.

These are details that don't change with the coachbuilder.

The car on the left in the old photo is a very distinguished vehicle.  All car owners of that time had to be wealthy, but this car would have been sold only to the wealthiest of buyers.

I'm not making a positive identification, but it is similar to the Panhard et Levassor seen here (and said to be of 1904):

https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/File:Im10LBVCR-541-Pan.jpg

Look at the shape of the radiator and the rake of the steering column.

[Meelystar]

Ah that’s interesting. This photo is actually of a garage in Eastbourne, they hired cars out with chauffeurs. My Great Grandfather worked there and drove a Wolseley hp 10 in 1906 Do you think the car on the right could be a Wolseley? I just thought it would be rather cool if it happened to be in the photo!

[horselydown86]

Do you think the car on the right could be a Wolseley?

I'm inclined to say not, but would qualify that by noting that that massive left headlamp is obscuring many of the details.

One thing I notice about the car on the right is the front axle beam is deeply curved.  Look below and just behind the number plate.  The thickest element there, curving down towards the floor in the centre, is the axle beam.

If you can find front-on photos of the Wolseleys of the era, check for that curved axle.

[horselydown86]

One other point - both the number plates are visible.  Enthusiasts in old car clubs and registers may be able to tell you exactly what cars were issued with those numbers.

ADDED:

See the post by vintman regarding the Surrey Vintage Vehicle Society here:

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=765755.msg6249978#msg6249978

[Meelystar]

Ok great worth bearing in mind. Thank you for that. I’ve now found some more information which suggests that would have had a lot more cars by the time my Great Grandfather worked there so it seems less likely. They seem to have some sort of photo of their staff form 1906 so I may have a look at contacting them and seeing if I can get hold of a copy!

[vintman]

Bit late on this one but can confirm that neither cars in the photo are a Wolseley of 1904 because Wolseley's of that vintage had a bonnet wrap-round radiator; quite distinctive.  However can help with dating and identification. The registration of the car on the left is A-4413 which is a London County Council issue of mid 1904. The car is French from one of the pioneer auto manufacturers, being a cca 1904 Panhard Levassor  16 HP  Side Entrance Tourer. The registration of car on right seems to be O (or possibly D). O-197 is Birmingham 1904 (if D then Kent 1904?). The car is also French, also an early maker, and it is just possible to see part of the side radiator hidden by the front mudguard advising this car is a cca 1904 Renault Tonneau, probably the 10HP Type N, before Renault started using scuttle radiators.