Author Topic: Holdens in Brighton area mid 1700s to 1820s  (Read 404 times)

Offline MattD30

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Re: Holdens in Brighton area mid 1700s to 1820s
« Reply #9 on: Thursday 04 June 20 20:18 BST (UK) »
I've now come across another James Holden christened in Brighton in 1778 son of John Holden and Susannah Roofe plus a marriage at Lewes for James Holden to Elizabeth Reeds in 1803.

Hi
But could he be this chap?
With another marriage at St Michael Lewes - 30 Sep 1844
James Holden, full, Widower, Mariner, father John Holden, Laborer
+
Mary Arnold, 25

This seems to be them in Brighton in 1851
All born Brighton
James Holden Head 72, Mariner, born Brighton
Mary Holden Wife 33
Sarah Ann Holden Daur  6
Susan Holden Daur  4
Mary Holden Daur  1

If he seems a bit old to be at sea then, baptism of Mary, 3 May 1850, has him as a Dealer in Marine Stores
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-DRDQ-PVJ?i=341

He is a Mariner on bap of Susan, 6 Sep 1846
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-DRDQ-5JT?i=81

It is possible that it's the same man. The only problem is why would James be described as a Blacksmith at one point and then as a Mariner later on. It looks like I need to do more digging.

Matt

Offline jonw65

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Re: Holdens in Brighton area mid 1700s to 1820s
« Reply #10 on: Thursday 04 June 20 20:38 BST (UK) »
Hi Matt
It could be that the blacksmith is indeed the man from Cuckfield. And he moved to Brighton with family. Yes, the baptisms would be seamless.

The James Holden bap 1778 Brighton could be the mariner who married in Lewes in 1844. But I am just going on his details from the 1851 census, age and place of birth, and they might be wrong.

The James Holden who married Elizabeth Reeds in 1803 marked
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-DRNS-G2P

James married Mary Arnold in 1844 signed
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-62KH-L14

Forty years is of course a long time (it is quite a good signature though!)

Offline MattD30

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Re: Holdens in Brighton area mid 1700s to 1820s
« Reply #11 on: Thursday 04 June 20 20:58 BST (UK) »
Hi Matt
It could be that the blacksmith is indeed the man from Cuckfield. And he moved to Brighton with family. Yes, the baptisms would be seamless.

The James Holden bap 1778 Brighton could be the mariner who married in Lewes in 1844. But I am just going on his details from the 1851 census, age and place of birth, and they might be wrong.

The James Holden who married Elizabeth Reeds in 1803 marked
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-DRNS-G2P

James married Mary Arnold in 1844 signed
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-62KH-L14

Forty years is of course a long time (it is quite a good signature though!)

Hi John

It seems we're both digging into this a bit more at the moment. The James who was christened in Cuckfield in 1770 was the son of another James Holden [born 1736 son of Francis]. What was the occupation of that James? Blacksmith! Could it be that we have two generations of blacksmiths here? Francis Holden was a mercer himself. I have his Will somewhere and other Holden wills so I might find more details in those.

Could the James who was christened in Brighton in 1778 be part of an entirely different family? I'll see if I can find out any more about him at my end too.

Do you think that the James who married Elizabeth Reeds later married Mary Arnold or do you think they are different people?

I'll do some digging in my Holden Wills to see if I can find any other clues in those.

Matt


Offline jonw65

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Re: Holdens in Brighton area mid 1700s to 1820s
« Reply #12 on: Thursday 04 June 20 22:07 BST (UK) »
Do you think that the James who married Elizabeth Reeds later married Mary Arnold or do you think they are different people?

Hi Matt
I thought they might be, but because of the signature thing I now rather doubt it. Don't know of course.

Have you any possibilities for burials of James the blacksmith?

A line in a newspaper, Brighton Gazette, 11 May 1826
Can't see it, just OCR text tidied up a bit
Mary Pratt wife of Thomas Pratt, was committed Lewes House of Correction for stealing two brass candlesticks from the house James Holden, blacksmith, 29, Darby-place ..

Was he 29 or living at 29 Darby place? :-\
John

Offline MattD30

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Re: Holdens in Brighton area mid 1700s to 1820s
« Reply #13 on: Friday 05 June 20 01:44 BST (UK) »
Do you think that the James who married Elizabeth Reeds later married Mary Arnold or do you think they are different people?

Hi Matt
I thought they might be, but because of the signature thing I now rather doubt it. Don't know of course.

Have you any possibilities for burials of James the blacksmith?

A line in a newspaper, Brighton Gazette, 11 May 1826
Can't see it, just OCR text tidied up a bit
Mary Pratt wife of Thomas Pratt, was committed Lewes House of Correction for stealing two brass candlesticks from the house James Holden, blacksmith, 29, Darby-place ..

Was he 29 or living at 29 Darby place? :-\
John

Hi John

I have to say that Darby Place does not ring any bells but I am not sure at the moment where my James was living at that time. Thankfully I do have him in several poll books and other records and also other relatives so I can check those tomorrow.

It seem that John Holden died in Brighton in 1824 and left a will. I am currently examining this to see if I can get any more details to confirm a link. One thing that is for certain is that this John is the one who married Susanna Roofe as he names all the children they had and also his wife.

Anyhow that's all for today, more tomorrow if I can.

Matt

Offline jonw65

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Re: Holdens in Brighton area mid 1700s to 1820s
« Reply #14 on: Friday 05 June 20 22:56 BST (UK) »
Hi Matt
Good luck, and let us know how you get on. I'll also have a look at that John Holden will when I get a chance.
John

Offline MattD30

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Re: Holdens in Brighton area mid 1700s to 1820s
« Reply #15 on: Friday 19 June 20 22:29 BST (UK) »
Although the James Holden christened in Brighton in 1778 is still a possibility I have now come across another one.

When they married in 1803 in Lewes both James and Elizabeth are described as being "otp"

So James must have lived in Lewes for a time even if he wasn't christened there. Brighton is only 6 miles from Lewes so he could easily have moved from Brighton to there.

There is however another James to consider.

FamilySearch has a christening for a "James Holder" in Lewes dated 5 November 1766 son of James and Elizabeth. I haven't seen the original entry but I can easily see a badly written or faint "n" getting misread as a "r" especially if the writing is bad. There have been time when I haven written an "n" at the end of a word only for someone to ask "is that an r?"

Either of these men could easily the one who married Elizabeth Reeds in 1803. I'm hoping that the answers may lie in wills if I can find any.

Matt


Offline jonw65

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Re: Holdens in Brighton area mid 1700s to 1820s
« Reply #16 on: Saturday 20 June 20 20:19 BST (UK) »
Hi Matt
I'm not  100% sure that the name as written in the parish register and as seen on FamilySearch is Holder, but tend to think it is.
But it is clearer on the BT, and it definitely says Holder on that. Might be just as well!
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-DTZ7-HHF?cat=586289

John

Offline MattD30

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Re: Holdens in Brighton area mid 1700s to 1820s
« Reply #17 on: Saturday 20 June 20 21:47 BST (UK) »
Hi Matt
I'm not  100% sure that the name as written in the parish register and as seen on FamilySearch is Holder, but tend to think it is.
But it is clearer on the BT, and it definitely says Holder on that. Might be just as well!
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-DTZ7-HHF?cat=586289

John

Hi John

Thanks for that BT. I agree with you, it definitely looks clearly like "Holder" on here. I've compared the last letter to the "r" on words like "Daughter" and months like "September", "October" and "November" and it's clearly the same letter.

So it looks more likely that the it's the James Holden who was christened in Brighton in 1778 [son of John and Susannah] who was my ancestor. I know he had several siblings so I will see if I can find out what happened to them.

I think it might also be useful to see if I can find any wills for them as well and I think I have found a few already.

Matt