Author Topic: Merchant Seaman’s record  (Read 1758 times)

Offline Vita Brevis

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 116
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Merchant Seaman’s record
« Reply #27 on: Sunday 07 June 20 21:51 BST (UK) »
I have only checked the name you posted but will check the other variations.
SW - I think we are searching in the right places. I had already checked the 1915 crew listings too and drew a blank. We will see where the other variations get us. Could I ask though is Peter Burns the correct full family name?
Regards
Hugh

Sorry Hugh, missed the question about the family name.  It is a valid question.  Yes as far as I can say however, the birth/baptism records for him & his siblings give his fathers name as Peter/Patrick BURNS & BYRNES which as you can imagine isn't a great help.  The first opportunity to find any record of Peter after his birth in 1878 is the 1901 census & again, I cannot see anything that points to him.  His baptism/Birth records do give his ID as Peter BURNS

Offline seaweed

  • Deceased † Rest In Peace
  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,363
  • I'll see you one day in Fiddlers Green.
    • View Profile
Re: Merchant Seaman’s record
« Reply #28 on: Monday 08 June 20 17:36 BST (UK) »
A long shot but it needs checking out.
I found a Peter Byrne onboard one of the City of Dublin Steam Packet vessel's in 1915. The YoB would be correct but the place of birth is given as County Dublin.
In the time scale CDSP ships comprised four vessels ULSTER, MUNSTER, LEINSTER and CONNAUGHT
 Three were engaged in Dublin - Holyhead ferry trade.
LEINSTER official number 104974 was torpedoed by the German submarine UB-123 on 10/October/1918. It may be worth checking her crew agreements covering that date.
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C2480749
Hugh, as an aside, his conduct was recorded as D D not DR DR any idea what that means? Dismissed or what.
Dim ateb yn well nag ateb anghywir. Nid oes dim yn ddall fel rhai nad ydynt yn dymuno gweld

RIP Roger 10 August 2022

Offline Vita Brevis

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 116
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Merchant Seaman’s record
« Reply #29 on: Monday 08 June 20 18:36 BST (UK) »
Most comprehensive list I can find online, two BURNS both military casualites  and one BYRNE M military survivor.     https://rmsleinster.com/people/_people.htm

Can't see a Peter Byrne
.


Offline HMac

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 804
  • www.sscityofcairo.co.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Merchant Seaman’s record
« Reply #30 on: Monday 08 June 20 20:24 BST (UK) »
Hugh, as an aside, his conduct was recorded as D D not DR DR any idea what that means? Dismissed or what.
Hi SW - I suspect it means either a lazy 'DR' i.e. just 'Declined' or it means Deserted.
Struggling big time on this search - I have to say as nothing fits.
Regards
Hugh

Merchant Navy Research
ss CITY OF CAIRO


Offline Vita Brevis

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 116
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Merchant Seaman’s record
« Reply #31 on: Tuesday 09 June 20 20:01 BST (UK) »
A long shot but it needs checking out.
I found a Peter Byrne onboard one of the City of Dublin Steam Packet vessel's in 1915. The YoB would be correct but the place of birth is given as County Dublin.
In the time scale CDSP ships comprised four vessels ULSTER, MUNSTER, LEINSTER and CONNAUGHT
 Three were engaged in Dublin - Holyhead ferry trade.
LEINSTER official number 104974 was torpedoed by the German submarine UB-123 on 10/October/1918. It may be worth checking her crew agreements covering that date.
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C2480749
Hugh, as an aside, his conduct was recorded as D D not DR DR any idea what that means? Dismissed or what.

Hi Seawea, which CDSP ship did you find Peter Byrne in 1915?

Offline seaweed

  • Deceased † Rest In Peace
  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,363
  • I'll see you one day in Fiddlers Green.
    • View Profile
Re: Merchant Seaman’s record
« Reply #32 on: Tuesday 09 June 20 20:46 BST (UK) »
He is listed in the index as being onboard ULSTER, However the original crew agreement gives three ships
  ULSTER, MUNSTER, LEINSTER .  Strange but due to the nature of the voyages, understandable.
https://1915crewlists.rmg.co.uk/document/211835#&gid=1&pid=1
He is listed on page 5. number 218.
Dim ateb yn well nag ateb anghywir. Nid oes dim yn ddall fel rhai nad ydynt yn dymuno gweld

RIP Roger 10 August 2022

Offline Vita Brevis

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 116
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Merchant Seaman’s record
« Reply #33 on: Monday 29 June 20 13:58 BST (UK) »
The Peter BYRNE on the Leinster isn't my man.  His parents are recorded on his records and sadly are not a match.  I think I'm back to being stuck at that brick wall.  Thanks everyone who has tried to help find him.

VB

Offline cafetiere

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 96
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Merchant Seaman’s record
« Reply #34 on: Friday 07 January 22 12:23 GMT (UK) »
Just reviving this thread in the hope of some advice, particularly from @seaweed.

I did order copies of the seaman's pouch I was after but was a little disappointed in the records I got back from TNA. I'd hoped to get a list of ships he'd worked on but there was only one ship noted on his DIS.A card when he was discharged in 1952.

If I wanted to find which ships he's sailed on, would that mean I need to visit Kew itself?

Thanks

Offline seaweed

  • Deceased † Rest In Peace
  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,363
  • I'll see you one day in Fiddlers Green.
    • View Profile
Re: Merchant Seaman’s record
« Reply #35 on: Friday 07 January 22 14:41 GMT (UK) »
Just reviving this thread in the hope of some advice, particularly from @seaweed.

I did order copies of the seaman's pouch I was after but was a little disappointed in the records I got back from TNA. I'd hoped to get a list of ships he'd worked on but there was only one ship noted on his DIS.A card when he was discharged in 1952.

If I wanted to find which ships he's sailed on, would that mean I need to visit Kew itself?

Thanks

Hi,
Seamans Pouch's can be hit and miss. Some contain chapter and verse including a MN ID card complete with mugshot photograph. Others very little. They never contain lists of ships served on except in certain situations where a person had previous service prior to 1941. May I ask the cost to copy the "Pouch"

What you need is his Form CRS10. This will tell you the ships he sailed on, (from early 1941) Together with dates and places of engagement and discharge.
 These records are stored alphabetically, in blocks of sixty names. At one time you would just order the entire book and look up the person you are interested in. (Imagine searching for a "Smith" etc) Since Form CRS10 may contain a National  Insurance number. It was deemed by TNA that this could be used for fraudulent activities. So you now have to fill in another form and hope that TNA staff hit on the correct person when they do a search. They delete the NI number.
The series which records Forms CRS 10, BT382. is divided into 8 sub sections
For example. My guess is your subject would be of European origin.  There are two sets of records for this category. If he/she is not in one he/she may be in the other. Another sub series concerns seamen who were POW and yet another records MN seamen who served on RN ships and yet another concerns Deaths at Sea for pension purposes.
As you can see it can be complicated. That is why it's best to visit Kew yourself. You can also look at other information such as ships Logbooks and Crew Agreements to give you a more rounded picture.
 I understand that for Physical reasons, mobility, distance to travel etc. some rootschatters may find it difficult to attend in person.  You have to consider the cost of travel versus cost of research by TNA or a "Professional" researcher. I have given up on the TNA costs and a professional researcher will cost around £50 plus per hour.
In pre Covid days I would attend TNA regularly and would have done a look up for you, but now?
If you can give us your mans full name, date and place of birth. Then Hugh or myself will give you a reference/s where his CRS10 may be stored. Contact by Personal Message if sensitive.

cheers SW
Dim ateb yn well nag ateb anghywir. Nid oes dim yn ddall fel rhai nad ydynt yn dymuno gweld

RIP Roger 10 August 2022