Author Topic: Great grandfather Alfred Jones - a bigamist.  (Read 2432 times)

Offline Oxtonite62

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Great grandfather Alfred Jones - a bigamist.
« on: Wednesday 10 June 20 15:55 BST (UK) »
Having been trying to knock down my Jones brick wall for some years, a recent close DNA match on MH with a mother & son has led me to discover that my great grandfather was a bigamist. He married my great grandmother, Eliza Sullivan in 1889 in Stepney, Middlesex (stated father's name as Henry) then married Annie Jones (think the name is a coincidence rather than him marrying a relative) in 1895 stating he was a bachelor and father's name as Alfred. His signature on each record looks identical, however on the second ‘marriage’ he calls himself, Alfred David Jones.

A couple of things I noticed and I wondered what other rootschatters may think.

Alfred was a dock labourer and lived in Whitechapel at the time of his first marriage aged 20.  He signed his name on the marriage record which I thought unusual for that period of time that someone working as a dock labourer would have been able to sign his name.

One of the witnesses to his marriage to my great grandmother was a Rebecca Turner.  A widow, by the name of Rebecca Jones married a Joseph Turner in 1887 in Bethnal Green – her father was a William Webb.  I thought Rebecca may be Alfred’s mother but unfortunately, I’ve not been able to find a birth on the GRO website with mother’s maiden name of Webb. On the 1911 Census he states he was born in St. George’s in the East.  I’ve searched other areas in the vicinity of St. Georges and also looked at dates either side of 1869 without success. I did order one cert that had no mother’s maiden name recorded (as I thought he may have been illegitimate) but it wasn’t the correct one.

Did Alfred lie about his age, where he was born, his father's name as well as his matrimonial status?  Maybe I’ll never know…..but I will keep looking!

My grandmother, Alfred's daughter spent the majority of her childhood in and out of the workhouse with her mother and half siblings. In those days did the authorities try to trace fathers of abandoned children?

Any thoughts or comments welcome?

Linda
Cash, Bethnal Green, Spitalfields, Shoreditch, London
Jones, Carmarthenshire?, Whitechapel, London
Sullivan, Cork or Kerry, Whitechapel, London
Flint - Shillington (Beds), St. Albans, Shoreditch, London.
Haslam - Marylebone, London (formerly Limerick, Ireland)
Nolan - Tipperary, Ireland
Walter - Somerset, England
Gunningham - Bristol, England
Fountain (possibly Huguenot descent) - Cross, Somerset
Gedmatch Id: T041555
Paternal Uncle (Cash Family) Gedmatch Id: T193819

Offline Milliepede

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Re: Great grandfather Alfred Jones - a bigamist.
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 10 June 20 16:02 BST (UK) »
Have you found him in 1891 census or earlier - who is he living with in 1891, first wife still?
Hinchliffe - Huddersfield Wiltshire
Burroughs - Arlingham Glos
Pick - Frocester Glos

Offline PaulineJ

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Re: Great grandfather Alfred Jones - a bigamist.
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 10 June 20 16:05 BST (UK) »
I'd say that there are distinct differences between the two Alfred part of the signatures.

Jones,  not so much, but I think the slant is different.
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Offline Milliepede

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Re: Great grandfather Alfred Jones - a bigamist.
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 10 June 20 16:23 BST (UK) »
Must agree I didn't think the signatures were exactly identical. 

Not sure yet it is the same person, did he have any children with his first wife who are on census with him and the second wife for example to confirm it?

Appreciate Jones is a bad surname to work with but births or baptisms would look for again to start with  :)
Hinchliffe - Huddersfield Wiltshire
Burroughs - Arlingham Glos
Pick - Frocester Glos


Offline Oxtonite62

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Re: Great grandfather Alfred Jones - a bigamist.
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 10 June 20 16:24 BST (UK) »
Have you found him in 1891 census or earlier - who is he living with in 1891, first wife still?

Hi Milliepede

No, I haven’t been able to find him or my great grandmother on the 1891 Census.

Thanks

Linda
Cash, Bethnal Green, Spitalfields, Shoreditch, London
Jones, Carmarthenshire?, Whitechapel, London
Sullivan, Cork or Kerry, Whitechapel, London
Flint - Shillington (Beds), St. Albans, Shoreditch, London.
Haslam - Marylebone, London (formerly Limerick, Ireland)
Nolan - Tipperary, Ireland
Walter - Somerset, England
Gunningham - Bristol, England
Fountain (possibly Huguenot descent) - Cross, Somerset
Gedmatch Id: T041555
Paternal Uncle (Cash Family) Gedmatch Id: T193819

Offline Oxtonite62

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Re: Great grandfather Alfred Jones - a bigamist.
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 10 June 20 16:38 BST (UK) »
I'd say that there are distinct differences between the two Alfred part of the signatures.

Jones,  not so much, but I think the slant is different.

Ah interesting thanks. My DNA match with a mother & son on MH...we share 227 & 92 cms and they also match my paternal late uncle & 1st cousin once removed. They are descended from Albert David Jones’ via his daughter Rebecca. Which is why I think the Alfred David Jones & Alfred Jones are one and the same....complicated.
Cash, Bethnal Green, Spitalfields, Shoreditch, London
Jones, Carmarthenshire?, Whitechapel, London
Sullivan, Cork or Kerry, Whitechapel, London
Flint - Shillington (Beds), St. Albans, Shoreditch, London.
Haslam - Marylebone, London (formerly Limerick, Ireland)
Nolan - Tipperary, Ireland
Walter - Somerset, England
Gunningham - Bristol, England
Fountain (possibly Huguenot descent) - Cross, Somerset
Gedmatch Id: T041555
Paternal Uncle (Cash Family) Gedmatch Id: T193819

Offline Oxtonite62

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Re: Great grandfather Alfred Jones - a bigamist.
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 10 June 20 16:45 BST (UK) »
Must agree I didn't think the signatures were exactly identical. 

Not sure yet it is the same person, did he have any children with his first wife who are on census with him and the second wife for example to confirm it?

Appreciate Jones is a bad surname to work with but births or baptisms would look for again to start with  :)

He had my grandmother Sarah Ann Jones with his first wife my great grandmother Eliza Jones (nee Sullivan). He then went on to have a further five children with his second wife Annie Jones as shown on the 1911 Census living in West Ham.

Yes, I agree Jones not the easiest surname to work with.
Cash, Bethnal Green, Spitalfields, Shoreditch, London
Jones, Carmarthenshire?, Whitechapel, London
Sullivan, Cork or Kerry, Whitechapel, London
Flint - Shillington (Beds), St. Albans, Shoreditch, London.
Haslam - Marylebone, London (formerly Limerick, Ireland)
Nolan - Tipperary, Ireland
Walter - Somerset, England
Gunningham - Bristol, England
Fountain (possibly Huguenot descent) - Cross, Somerset
Gedmatch Id: T041555
Paternal Uncle (Cash Family) Gedmatch Id: T193819

Offline mckha489

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Re: Great grandfather Alfred Jones - a bigamist.
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 10 June 20 16:49 BST (UK) »
I agree with you Linda, the signatures are very much alike.
We need someone who can superimpose them. 

Offline JenB

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Re: Great grandfather Alfred Jones - a bigamist.
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 10 June 20 17:02 BST (UK) »
His signature should also appear on the 1911 census form.
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