Where and when did Thomas Grover and Deborah marry?

[erc19]

Thomas Grover and Deborah had five children (that I know of) between 1788 and 1800, but I cannot find a marriage record for the couple. Can anyone help?

What I know about them:

Thomas Grover was baptised in 1756 to Thomas and Ann (née Barnett) in Binsted, Hampshire. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JQFZ-NXR

Deborah was born c. 1762, according to her age on her burial record in Binsted in 1827. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QPTX-H7ZZ

Their children:

1.   Thomas (bap. 19th October 1788, Northchapel, West Sussex)
2.   Frances (bap. 8th October 1790, Headley, Hampshire – parents’ residence given as Binsted)
3.   William (bap. 13th December 1795, Binsted, Hampshire)
4.   Jane (bap. 14th February 1798, Binsted, Hampshire)
5.   John (bap. 25th December 1800, Binsted, Hampshire)

I have wondered if Deborah came from the Northchapel area, before the family moved to Thomas’ home parish. Furthermore, their eldest son, Thomas, married in Northchapel in 1808, giving his residence as Binsted.

But I cannot find a corresponding marriage for a Thomas Grover and Deborah anywhere in the 1780s. I’ve tried spelling variations and potential clerical errors, but have come up with nothing. I don’t know if I’ve overlooked something blatantly obvious (not the first time!) and the answer is staring me in the face. Regardless, I would appreciate all and any help to find a marriage!

[goldie61]

Freereg has a birth of a Deborah Newman 6th JAn 1762 at Northchapel Sussex.
FAther Edward. Mother Mary.
https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/590f474bf493fd1202061092/deborah-newman-baptism-sussex-northchapel-1762-01-06?locale=en

[goldie61]

Oh dear.
She seems to have died - buried 27th Feb 1764 "an Infant". No parents' names given.
Image viewable on familysearch

[erc19]

Oh dear.
She seems to have died - buried 27th Feb 1764 "an Infant". No parents' names given.
Image viewable on familysearch

I spotted that baptism/burial too (sorry, should have included it in my original post). It was such a promising match as well. Thank you for looking anyway!

I wonder if there is a parish adjacent to Binsted or Northchapel with a gap in the parish registers in the 1780s. I will keep searching...

[coombs]

I did a 5 mile radius search on FindMyPast, for any Deborah's baptised 1757-1767, and there were 3 Deborah's baptised in Alton near Basingstoke. Alton is 2 miles west of Binsted. In the Quaker baptisms, so probably nonconformists. They may have worshipped at Alton but came from surrounding villages.

Deborah Dawes baptised 1759. parents William and Mary.
Deborah Simmons baptised 1760 parents Sam and Ann.
Deborah Waring baptised 1763. Parents Samuel and Eliz.

A good idea would be to check the witnesses to marriages in Northchapel, Headley and Binsted parish registers, see if any Grover people witnessed any marriages, they may reveal relatives.

[erc19]

I did a 5 mile radius search on FindMyPast, for any Deborah's baptised 1757-1767, and there were 3 Deborah's baptised in Alton near Basingstoke. Alton is 2 miles west of Binsted. In the Quaker baptisms, so probably nonconformists. They may have worshipped at Alton but came from surrounding villages.

Deborah Dawes baptised 1759. parents William and Mary.
Deborah Simmons baptised 1760 parents Sam and Ann.
Deborah Waring baptised 1763. Parents Samuel and Eliz.

A good idea would be to check the witnesses to marriages in Northchapel, Headley and Binsted parish registers, see if any Grover people witnessed any marriages, they may reveal relatives.

That was silly of me; I didn't even consider a Quaker origin for Deborah! Thank you for searching. Looking at the Quaker records, I can see that Deborah Waring died unmarried at age 27, but Deborah Dawes or Simmons seem like good possibilities.

FreeReg (which I only recently discovered has the wonderful option of searching through marriage witnesses) has no Grovers in Northchapel or the surrounding area who witnessed a marriage, and doesn't yet cover the relevant Hampshire parishes. Unfortunately, most Hampshire records haven't yet been digitised, so I'm going to have to wait until lockdown eases to take a trip to Winchester and browse the records there.

[erc19]

So, an update:

Regarding the Alton Quaker Deborahs (of the Dawes, Simmons, and Waring varieties), I've busied myself looking through the Quaker records on Ancestry for any further mention of them. I've found two burials which potentially rules one out, and definitely rules out another (which I've noted in a post above):

• Deborah Waring, daughter of Samuel Waring of Alton, aged 27, bur. 1788 at Burnhill Fields, London
• Deborah Dawes, aged 66, bur. 1826, and recorded in the Peel's Court Monthly Meeting records

Deborah Dawes is noted as not being a member, though I don't know if this refers to being a Quaker, or merely a member of that particular meeting. It also doesn't note her marital status. What is making me rule her out as being 'my' Deborah, however, is that the Deborah Dawes b. 1759 had a sister, Mary, b. 1757, who married John Wansbrough in Alton in Nov 1788, with 'Debh. Dawes' witnessing the marriage as a relation. My Deborah had her son, Thomas, baptised in October of 1788. Furthermore, there are subsequent children born in Alton to John and Mary Wansbrough into the 1790s, with Deborah Dawes serving as 'witness' on the birth records. Presumably this is the Deborah b. 1759, as I can't find another Deborah Dawes in the Quaker records who would fit.

Which leaves us with Deborah Simmons. She had numerous siblings, and the generous details given in Quaker marriages (namely, the long list of relations who witness the marriage) led to me searching for their records. I can find several marriage records for these siblings in various Quaker meetings in London, the latest of which is the marriage of Isaac Simmons to Rebecca Crozier on the 9th February 1790. No 'Deborah Grover' is named as a relation and/or witness, but there is a 'Deborah Simmons' named instead as a relation. This potentially rules her out as being 'my' Deborah as well. I can't find anything more about this Deborah Simmons beyond 1790, however.

Long story short, I think the three Quaker births can possibly be ruled out.

I also contacted the lovely people at the Sussex Family History Group, who keep a Wills Index, to see if any Thomas Grovers or Deborah Grovers were to be found lurking anywhere. They responded incredibly quickly, and...no Thomases or Deborahs whatsoever!

Very odd. I'm running out of places to look (during lockdown, anyway).