Elizabeth Allan

[Forfarian]

Thanks Monica.  I had wondered whether it was linked in some way to couples who were not married but seems to have just been a "local" tradition

It was also, very annoyingly, a standing tradition in Forfar through most of the 18th century. Nothing to do with parents' marital status.

[Julia60]

Thank you all for your help and welcoming me to RootsChat.

What I really want is to confirm a date and place of birth for Elizabeth and also a marriage date for her and John. There doesn't seem to be anything on SP and , as you say, any information on Ancestry should be double checked.
I am assuming that the tree you have looked at on Ancestry is probably mine (Julia McWilliam , nee Black) so I'm sorry if you have done a lot of research on my behalf.
I had hoped that someone on here was maybe researching Elizabeth Allen and found some more definite information.
Otherwise, is there any where else I could look?

Thanks again 

[ruthhelen]

Unfortunately, the parish records are far from complete - either because the records haven't survived, or because recording was sporadic. If they're not on SP, then you're unlikely to find them.

I've not been able to find anything for Elizabeth Allan, although entries exist in the Keithhall parish register for some of her siblings. The youngest siblings I can find for her are Isabella and Alexander, both of whom declare themselves to have been born in Tarves in later census records, but again, no record in the Tarves parish registers for them.

Marriage records are also particularly problematic for these two parishes - there were no marriages recorded in Tarves after 1801, and none in Keithhall between 1781 and 1852.

Ruth

[Julia60]

Thanks ruthhelen!
I guess I'm not going to find anything more for Elizabeth

Are you researching the same Black family as me?

Julia 

[ruthhelen]

Hi Julia - I think the short answer is 'probably' 

I've been digging around in three families of Blacks, farming neighbouring farms around Haddo, who I'm sure must be related, but I'm struggling to get back far enough to find the common ancestor.

James Black in Andet (the father of your John Black) m. Mary Stirling, 1783 in Methlick; d. 1838, Methlick - had 4 children that I'm aware of (all named in his will) - John Black, m. Elizabeth Allan; Margaret Black, m. John Black (who also surely must be related, but not found out how yet); Mary Black, m. William Grant; James Black, m. Jane Symmers.

William Black in Flinthills, m. Barbara Donald, 1801; d. 1835, Methlick - had 3 children that I know of - Isobel Black, m. George Gray; William Black, m. Ann Thomson; Agnes Black, m. George Hutcheon.

Alexander Black in Brainjohn (latterly in Cairnleith, Ellon), my 4 x great grandfather, m. Jane Simpson, 1788; d. 1825. Had 6 children: Elspet Black; James Black; John Black, m. Elspet Moir; Margaret Black; Jean Black; Alexander Black (my 3 x great grandfather), m. Ann Webster; Isobel Black.

Ruth

[Julia60]

Hi Julia - I think the short answer is 'probably' 

I've been digging around in three families of Blacks, farming neighbouring farms around Haddo, who I'm sure must be related, but I'm struggling to get back far enough to find the common ancestor.

James Black in Andet (the father of your John Black) m. Mary Stirling, 1783 in Methlick; d. 1838, Methlick - had 4 children that I'm aware of (all named in his will) - John Black, m. Elizabeth Allan; Margaret Black, m. John Black (who also surely must be related, but not found out how yet); Mary Black, m. William Grant; James Black, m. Jane Symmers.

William Black in Flinthills, m. Barbara Donald, 1801; d. 1835, Methlick - had 3 children that I know of - Isobel Black, m. George Gray; William Black, m. Ann Thomson; Agnes Black, m. George Hutcheon.

Alexander Black in Brainjohn (latterly in Cairnleith, Ellon), my 4 x great grandfather, m. Jane Simpson, 1788; d. 1825. Had 6 children: Elspet Black; James Black; John Black, m. Elspet Moir; Margaret Black; Jean Black; Alexander Black (my 3 x great grandfather), m. Ann Webster; Isobel Black.


Ruth

I have that James Black(m Mary Stirling 1783) , his father - Alexander Black(b. Methlick 1697) married Anne Crives 1752 in Methlick and died in Ellon 1764.
The said Alexander Black, his father James Black b. 1661 and then  James' parents(not verified) Nathaniel (finally a change of name!) Black and Janet Gibb.

Any help there?

Julia