Author Topic: Could Peckman be Packman?  (Read 1401 times)

Offline louisemcm

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 90
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Could Peckman be Packman?
« on: Thursday 18 June 20 23:06 BST (UK) »
Hello everyone

I am trying to find the baptism records for James PACKMAN born around 1805.  I have found census records for in 1841, 1861, 1871 and 1881 stating that he was born in Crockenhill in Kent giving a year of birth of about 1805.

I've found records on familysearch.org showing that he married Amy VALLINS in St Mary Cray on 23 December 1828 and I have just found a record (at St Mary Cray online parish clerks) saying that the witnesses were Thomas and Richard PACKMAN (no further detail)

The only baptism I've found around that time is for James PECKMAN, parents John and Mary PECKMAN on 16 June 1805 in Eynsford, Kent.
John and Mary PECKMAN also baptised a son Thomas on 10 July 1803 at Eynsford.
John and Mary PACKMAN baptised a son Richard on 30 Aug 1807
John and Mary PACKMAN baptised daughter Juliet on 14 Jun 1818.

Could they all be Packmans? Then the witnesses at James' wedding in 1828 could have been his brothers Richard and Thomas?
I'm worried that I'm trying to get the James Peckman baptism record to fit my story as I can't find any other record of a baptism for James Packman.

I'd be grateful for any advice.
Best wishes
Louise

guest189040

  • Guest
Re: Could Peckman be Packman?
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 18 June 20 23:24 BST (UK) »
The 1861 census has James, Amy and Daughter Mary A and his birth is Eynsford.

If this is your James then the Baptism could be

James Peckman
Gender:   Male
Baptism Date:   16 Jun 1805
Baptism Place:   Eynsford,Kent,England
Father:   John Peckman
Mother:   Mary

So in answer to your question yes, it often happens that name spelling changes.

There is also

James Packman
Gender:   Male
Baptism Date:   10 Feb 1805
Baptism Place:   Boughton-under-Blean, Kent, England
Father:   Thomas Packman
Mother:   Lydia

Which I have not looked further into but these two are the only Kent births in a two year period either side of 1805

Offline goldie61

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,869
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Could Peckman be Packman?
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 18 June 20 23:37 BST (UK) »
Have you seen these actual records in the parish registers, or just transcriptions?
It may be difficult to distinguish an 'e' from an 'a'.
And it would seem that even in the Eynsford registers, the names Peckman and Packman were the same family.
Do the actual registers give any clue as to place of residence or the father's occupation?
If so, does this tie in with anything you know about James?
What about names? Do the names of the children of James tie in with any of those you have found for his (possible) parents and brothers and sister? John and MAry are fairly common of course; Richard a little more unusual, and Juliet very unusual.

Have you looked for any wills for Peckman/Packman around this area?
If John Packman the father of James, Thomas, Richard and Juliet died after 1828 when James and Amy married, he might mention Amy in his will, or their children as his grandchildren.
Are John and Mary still alive in 1841? and in the census?


If it was me, I'd say this James was probably your man, and the difference in spellings is just that. Spelling was not standardised at that time.
But it would be better to have some other proof to back up your decision.
Lane, Burgess: Cheshire. Finney, Rogers, Gilman:Derbys
Cochran, Nicol, Paton, Bruce:Scotland. Bertolle:London
Bainbridge, Christman, Jeffs: Staffs

Offline Gibel

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,511
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Could Peckman be Packman?
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 18 June 20 23:39 BST (UK) »
Crockenhill is 3.8 miles from Eynsford. It was in the parish of Eynsford and didnít have its own C of E church until 1851 so anyone living in Crockenhill before 1851 would have gone to the parish church at Eynsford for baptisms, marriages and burials. There was also an older Baptist Chapel in Crockenhill.

Eynsford is a pretty little village, as a child we would sometimes go there for picnics on the village green. There is a bridge as well as a ford in the village. Once whilst we were there a Rolls Royce drove through the ford, the water was quite high and the engine died! Having left the area 50 years ago it is interesting going back when visiting family and suddenly I remember something or somewhere from long ago.


Offline goldie61

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,869
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Could Peckman be Packman?
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 18 June 20 23:44 BST (UK) »
Eynsford to Crockenhill about 3 miles.
Eynsford to Boughton under Blean 42 miles.

Is see Biggles has found them in the 1861 Census - where James gives his place of birth as Eynsford.
If so, this gives weight to the baptism at Eynsford.
Lane, Burgess: Cheshire. Finney, Rogers, Gilman:Derbys
Cochran, Nicol, Paton, Bruce:Scotland. Bertolle:London
Bainbridge, Christman, Jeffs: Staffs

Offline Gibel

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,511
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Could Peckman be Packman?
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 18 June 20 23:56 BST (UK) »
If you google Crockenhill Heritage Trail you will find a pamphlet which gives a lot of history of Crockenhill and has lots of pictures.

Offline louisemcm

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 90
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Could Peckman be Packman?
« Reply #6 on: Friday 19 June 20 11:18 BST (UK) »
The 1861 census has James, Amy and Daughter Mary A and his birth is Eynsford.

If this is your James then the Baptism could be

James Peckman
Gender:   Male
Baptism Date:   16 Jun 1805
Baptism Place:   Eynsford,Kent,England
Father:   John Peckman
Mother:   Mary

So in answer to your question yes, it often happens that name spelling changes.

There is also

James Packman
Gender:   Male
Baptism Date:   10 Feb 1805
Baptism Place:   Boughton-under-Blean, Kent, England
Father:   Thomas Packman
Mother:   Lydia

Which I have not looked further into but these two are the only Kent births in a two year period either side of 1805

Hi Biggles
Thank you for your reply and for looking for me.

The 1861 census James Packman with Amy and daughter Mary A is the James that I think is my relative. I can't find an 1851 census mentioning James and Amy Packman and their children in any of my searches so don't know what I'm doing wrong.

It seems that Packman has been transcribed as Peckman as the other baptism is so far away.

Thanks again
Louise


Offline louisemcm

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 90
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Could Peckman be Packman?
« Reply #7 on: Friday 19 June 20 11:20 BST (UK) »
Have you seen these actual records in the parish registers, or just transcriptions?
It may be difficult to distinguish an 'e' from an 'a'.
And it would seem that even in the Eynsford registers, the names Peckman and Packman were the same family.
Do the actual registers give any clue as to place of residence or the father's occupation?
If so, does this tie in with anything you know about James?
What about names? Do the names of the children of James tie in with any of those you have found for his (possible) parents and brothers and sister? John and MAry are fairly common of course; Richard a little more unusual, and Juliet very unusual.

Have you looked for any wills for Peckman/Packman around this area?
If John Packman the father of James, Thomas, Richard and Juliet died after 1828 when James and Amy married, he might mention Amy in his will, or their children as his grandchildren.
Are John and Mary still alive in 1841? and in the census?


If it was me, I'd say this James was probably your man, and the difference in spellings is just that. Spelling was not standardised at that time.
But it would be better to have some other proof to back up your decision.

Hi Goldie61

Thank you so much for your reply.
I haven't had a chance to see the parish register. Just a transcription on Ancestry. I tried to look for the film numbers on Familysearch.org but you have to be in a Family history centre to view the actual entry so I couldn't see if it looked like an "e" or an "a".

I haven't found any wills. I actually don't know how to go about finding them as I'm very new at family history research. Should they just come up if I narrow down the search on Ancestry?

I haven't been able to find out more information about John and Mary Packman yet.
Other Ancestry family trees have John Packman listed as being born on 22 Oct 1777 and death 18 July 1830 in Eynsford but I haven't been able to find the source of that information yet and I'm now wary about just copying information from other people's family trees.
I have no information at all on Mary.

Thanks for your advice and guidance.
Best wishes
Louise


Offline louisemcm

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 90
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Could Peckman be Packman?
« Reply #8 on: Friday 19 June 20 11:32 BST (UK) »
Hi Goldie61

Thank you so much for your reply.
I haven't had a chance to see the parish register. Just a transcription on Ancestry. I tried to look for the film numbers on Familysearch.org but you have to be in a Family history centre to view the actual entry so I couldn't see if it looked like an "e" or an "a".

I haven't found any wills. I actually don't know how to go about finding them as I'm very new at family history research. Should they just come up if I narrow down the search on Ancestry?

I haven't been able to find out more information about John and Mary Packman yet.
Other Ancestry family trees have John Packman listed as being born on 22 Oct 1777 and death 18 July 1830 in Eynsford but I haven't been able to find the source of that information yet and I'm now wary about just copying information from other people's family trees.
I have no information at all on Mary.

Thanks for your advice and guidance.
Best wishes
Louise