Tirrells in Cowfold area during 1700s

[MattD30]

More rushing Matt    Daniel Wells married Mary Stone - her parents were Thomas Stone and Mary Tirrell.   

Thanks to Pheno for the reply and suggestion.  There is a marriage on FindMyPast listed as from the Fleet Register: Joseph Tarrall bachelor bricklayer and Mary Harding spinster, both of St George Hanover Square, Middlesex on 30 May 1726.  I have emailed the Sussex Family History Group to ask if this marriage appears in their "Strays" lists for marriages of Sussex people away from their usual district.  I don't think I have found any reference to the Cowfold Joseph Tirrell's occupation.

However, there are baptisms for 3 children to this couple at St George Hanover Square but the third one is almost the same time scale as "our" Tirrell couple's first child in Cowfold.  That would have been too easy a solution!   

Sarah Turril born & baptised 25 July 1727,
Mary Turril born 7 Sep 1728 baptised 22nd and
Elizabeth Tyrrel born 24th of ? baptised 15 Feb 1729/30.

As we have John Tirrel baptised 11 Feb 1729/30 at Cowfold, I think this rules out this marriage, unfortunately.

Hi

Oops yep sorry about that. As you say Mary Tirrell married Thomas Stone and their daughter Mary Stone [born 1772] married Daniel Wells.

I've been trying different variations of the Tirrell name to see if I can find any wills or anything else which might help us but so far not much else has turned up. So far I've tried these variations:

Terrell
Terell
Terril
Terill
Teryl
Teryll
Tiryll

I also tried Tarrell, Tarroll, and Terrall in case the the name had been spelt with an "e" and then that had been mistranscribed as either an "a" or an "o".

So far I can't find anything on the Garton line to investigate but I will keep checking. Ideally I am hoping to find either a Tirrell or a Garton will from an earlier generation which might name the children of Joseph and Mary and give us some clues.

Do you know anything about Thomas Stone who married Mary Tirrell? I've found two christened in Nuthurst in 1740 [one is the son of Thomas and one is the son of John] but I can't find a burial for either so both need investigating.

That's all for now but I'll try to post some more later.

Matt

[MattD30]

No doubt Matt will be along later to look at all this, jonw65.  I think it could all be possible, as the baptism for Elizabeth Terry as first child on 21 Apr 1728 fits in nicely before the baptism of John Terrell on 11 Feb 1729/30.

The link for Joseph & Mary's marriage, image 538 of 653, is viewed more clearly on the previous page, image 537, as the left margin with the dates is shown in full, nice and clearly.

There is also a baptism for Joseph Terry at Cowfold on 5 March 1701/02, son of John & Susan Terry of Beeding.  (if only Susan had been Sarah, seeing as how the Terrells were fond of that name, this might have clinched it!  Perhaps it is wrong, as in the amendment in the marriage John/Joseph)

I did have a note of the Poor Law database re: Joseph in Bolney, thank you for reminding me.

Will be interested to see what Matt makes of your discoveries.  It is his posting after all.  Thanks again.

Hi

Just been looking through what jonw65 put and I agree it all looks very interesting and I think could provide the lead we need.

I'm going to look through the records he mentioned and then I'll see if I can find any wills or other records

Matt

[tillypeg]

I don't know anything about Thomas Stone, that probably needs another thread on Rootschat!  I haven't looked into the Stone line.

The Terry links are interesting and could be the ones we need, so I'm still looking at all the info jonw65 has provided.

[MattD30]

I don't know anything about Thomas Stone, that probably needs another thread on Rootschat!  I haven't looked into the Stone line.

The Terry links are interesting and could be the ones we need, so I'm still looking at all the info jonw65 has provided.

I think we must be doing the same thing lol!

I also had a second look at the parish register enter for the marriage of Mary Tirrell and Thomas Stone which you can see here

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-DRT2-WP?i=174

Looking at the spelling of her surname it looks like Terrell or Tirrill so I am wondering if originaly "Terryll" had been written and all we see left is "Terry"?

Also I wonder if the witness names might help us but so far I can't make them out.

That's all for tonight but I'll try to add some more details tomorrow.

Matt

[tillypeg]

I have the witnesses as Jos. Tirrell and Walter Hills. 

I have a note that there was a burial at Cowfold on 25 Dec 1763 for Joseph Tirrell, of this Parish.  Also a burial for Joseph Turrel 14 Feb 1773 at Cowfold, of Poor House.  If the Joseph Tirrell acting as a witness at wedding of Mary Tirrell to Thomas Stone in 1765 was her father, then his death must be the latter.  If only the burial entries had age at death, we'd be getting somewhere!  Joseph Tirrell's wife Mary's burial could be Mary Turle 25 Oct 1777 at Cowfold.

Goodnight.

[MattD30]

I have the witnesses as Jos. Tirrell and Walter Hills. 

I have a note that there was a burial at Cowfold on 25 Dec 1763 for Joseph Tirrell, of this Parish.  Also a burial for Joseph Turrel 14 Feb 1773 at Cowfold, of Poor House.  If the Joseph Tirrell acting as a witness at wedding of Mary Tirrell to Thomas Stone in 1765 was her father, then his death must be the latter.  If only the burial entries had age at death, we'd be getting somewhere!  Joseph Tirrell's wife Mary's burial could be Mary Turle 25 Oct 1777 at Cowfold.

Goodnight.

I also read the surname of the second witness as Hills but I couldn't quite decide on the first name.

I'm off work now for two days so I will do some more digging tomorrow and get back to you then.

That's all for now.

Matt

[jonw65]

I think it could all be possible, as the baptism for Elizabeth Terry as first child on 21 Apr 1728 fits in nicely before the baptism of John Terrell on 11 Feb 1729/30.

There might be a sea change about that time.
From a very basic search on FS, it's Terry all the way in Cowfold from 1700-1728, and then for more than three decades they seem to have no Terrys indexed there at all.
In that period it's all Terrels and Tirrells and  even Tirles (do they fit in?). Some of these would surely have been Terrys previously? Burial of a Richard Terrel in 1730, a Susanna Tirrell marriage in 1743, a Susan Terryll burial in 1747, etc.
I have not looked at images!

Peter Heald had been the vicar of Cowfold, he is said to have died in 1728
https://theclergydatabase.org.uk/jsp/persons/CreatePersonFrames.jsp?PersonID=63840

And he was succeeded as vicar that same year by Benjamin Richardson
https://theclergydatabase.org.uk/jsp/persons/CreatePersonFrames.jsp?PersonID=65219

Could there be a link between a new vicar and a possible change of spelling or interpretation of the Terry name ?

[MattD30]

I think it could all be possible, as the baptism for Elizabeth Terry as first child on 21 Apr 1728 fits in nicely before the baptism of John Terrell on 11 Feb 1729/30.

There might be a sea change about that time.
From a very basic search on FS, it's Terry all the way in Cowfold from 1700-1728, and then for more than three decades they seem to have no Terrys indexed there at all.
In that period it's all Terrels and Tirrells and  even Tirles (do they fit in?). Some of these would surely have been Terrys previously? Burial of a Richard Terrel in 1730, a Susanna Tirrell marriage in 1743, a Susan Terryll burial in 1747, etc.
I have not looked at images!

Peter Heald had been the vicar of Cowfold, he is said to have died in 1728
https://theclergydatabase.org.uk/jsp/persons/CreatePersonFrames.jsp?PersonID=63840

And he was succeeded as vicar that same year by Benjamin Richardson
https://theclergydatabase.org.uk/jsp/persons/CreatePersonFrames.jsp?PersonID=65219

Could there be a link between a new vicar and a possible change of spelling or interpretation of the Terry name ?

If I remember I will try to look at the images for those records tomorrow.

Matt

[tillypeg]

I think it could all be possible, as the baptism for Elizabeth Terry as first child on 21 Apr 1728 fits in nicely before the baptism of John Terrell on 11 Feb 1729/30.

There might be a sea change about that time.
From a very basic search on FS, it's Terry all the way in Cowfold from 1700-1728, and then for more than three decades they seem to have no Terrys indexed there at all.
In that period it's all Terrels and Tirrells and  even Tirles (do they fit in?). Some of these would surely have been Terrys previously? Burial of a Richard Terrel in 1730, a Susanna Tirrell marriage in 1743, a Susan Terryll burial in 1747, etc.
I have not looked at images!

Could there be a link between a new vicar and a possible change of spelling or interpretation of the Terry name ?

After a long gap, there are three baptisms and three burials for Terry people at Cowfold from 1762 to 1780:

Baptisms:
Ann* 1762 d/o Richard & Mary
John 1765 s/o John & Christian
Sarah 1771 d/o John & Christian.

Burials:
Hanna/Hannah 1774
John 1777
Mary 1780.

I was thinking along the same lines as you jonw65, re: the new vicar and his spellings, thanks for looking at that & suggesting it.

*The baptism entry on Family Search for Ann has Terry, from the PR.  However, there is a note on the Sussex Family History Group Data Archive (for members) which states "BT has Tirrell as surname."  That is very good news, I think!  If that applies to the much earlier Terrys, then we might be getting somewhere.