Thomas DAVIES Cwmgors 19th Century

[osprey]

Hannah Morgan would be his step grand daughter.


Another thought that crossed my mind is that in early years, some registrars invented birth registrations. From memory, pay was related to number of registrations. Now this child existed, just registered at the wrong time.

[fisherj]

Well.... that's a thought.

From my other post on the general forum i have just been reading an article i was sent which explained the onus was on registrars to register births.  It was not compulsory in the early days and they were paid for each registration.

So that could very well be it - and he would never have thought he would be caught out!

Going back to possible PENDRY and DAVIES connections, in 1841 Thomas and Rachel DAVIES are at Rhyndwyclydach with servant Margaret MORGAN aged 7 Not born in county. 

I have wondered whether she was the child of Thomas MORGAN and Anne PENDRY who married on 18 February 1826.  Groom abode Ystradgynlais.

But i cannot find a baptism for Anne PENDRY/PENRY/HENRY/HENDRY that fits. 

Nor can i find a marriage or death for Margaret MORGAN.  I was hoping for a marriage where Thomas DAVIES was a witness!

Many thanks again!!

[osprey]

baptism for sister of Philip in Llandybie
2 July 1801 Anne Penry daughter of Rees & Edekiah

What is the first name of the second witness to the marriage? Don't think I've come across a Zorobabel before! Excellent!

https://www.britannica.com/biography/Zerubbabel

Baptism in Llandybie 3 March 1833  for Margaret Morgan, daughter of Thomas, labourer, and Anne, address village.
I can see banns for Margaret Morgan & David Richards both otp Nov/Dec 1854, marriage registered dec qtr 1854 Llandilofawr. OK, marriage is under Morgans.
22 Dec 1854
David Richards 24 bach collier Dogsbrook Ucha father Edward Richards collier
Margaret Morgans 24 spinster Gellydwarch father Thomas collier
witnesses David Evans & William Robert.
Age doesn't seem to be a match.

 

[fisherj]

Oh i missed Anne PENRY 1801 - thanks for that.

I have a burial of Anne Morgan 13 Nov 1840 aged 55 (b.1785 though) which would/could explain why a child of 7 was a servant.

She would be Rachel DAVIES/PENRY's niece wouldn't she?

As for the Margaret MORGANS marriage....at least her father's name is correct.

Sorry - i missed the bit about witnesses....whose marriage fo you mean?

Zorrobabel??  In any case i was going to ask you whether Edekiah was correct or a misreading in transcription! 

Thanks for all your help.

[osprey]

no, Edekiah is what it says on the register. If you use Findmypast, you can check the  scan of the register. Zorrobabel witnessed Anne's marriage to Thomas.
I don't rely on transcriptions. One possible marriage I found just now for a Margaret Morgan gave her age as 25 on the transcription, but the image showed 18 so too young for yours.

I think this might be Thomas & Anne

1841 Maeslech, Bettws HO107/1384/1 folio 8 pg 8
Thomas Morgan 45 farmer
Ann 40
Thomas 15
Rachel 14
Ann 7
David 2
Morgan 1
all born in county

1851 Maes llech HO107/2471 folio 679 pg 19
Thomas Morgan head mar 50 farmer of 64? acres
Anne wife 50
Rachel daughter 24
David son 14 employing on the farm
Morgan son 11
Jacop son 9
Mary dau 7
Thomas, Anne & Rachel born Llandybie, other children born Bettws

birth regs
David Morgan sept qtr 1838 Llandilofawr vol 26 pg 469 mmn Pendry
Morgan Morgan june qtr 1840 Llandilofawr vol 26 pg 537 mmn Pendry
Jacob Morgan dec qtr 1841 Llandilofawr vol 26 pg 508 mmn Pendry

not finding parish baptisms apart from Margaret, possibly non-conformist. Perhaps Margaret wasn't expected to survive so a quick baptism in parish church. 

[osprey]

marriage 8 Jan 1790 in Llandybie for Rees Penry & Edekiah Maybery, both otp, witnesses Wm William & John Davies. All except Rees sign.

Burial 10 Dec 1829 for Rees Pendry 80 of Gelly gweirdy(?)
& this could be Edekiah
11 Feb 1832 Edith Penry 74 Gelly Gweirdy

There's a baptism in Llandeilofawr 1 Sept 1788 for Edeccia, daughter of Richard & Catherine Mayberry of Brynybeirdd. Richard possibly a brother of Edekiah. He is noted as forgeman on his marriage to Catherine Davies in 1774. He was baptised 27 May 1749 son of Philip & Elisabeth Mayberry of Brinybair

[fisherj]

Thanks again Osprey.

Would you please pass on the full names of the witnesses at the marriage of Rees PENRY and Edekiah MAYBERY.  You have whetted my appetite already with referring to Zorro!

And lastly....just a comment re the MORGANs.  I am now working on the assumption that Thomas did marry Rachel PENRY and that Margaret MORGAN was her niece (female servant) in their household in Rhyndwyclydach 1841. 

It could very well be that her age was 9 and not 7 years given other inaccuracies in the censuses then.  9 years would fit in better with the ages of Thomas and Anne MORGAN's children.  Otherwise a 7 year gap where some may have died, I know....but...

Interesting (to me!) that Thomas MORGAN and Anne PENRY/MORGAN moved to Maesllech, Betws.  Very many thanks for all these details.

I already have a direct ancestor Gwenllian MORGAN of Betws whose baptism I cannot find.  She was born abt 1781.  (Buried in 1866 aged 85.)  (More non-Conformists.)

She married William MORRIS 1760 - 1841 and they lived at Penllech, Y Betws, Carms which looking at the enumerator's route was the next but one homestead to Maesllech. 

This may all be a coincidence since she was born in Y Betws and Thomas MORGAN was born in Llandybie - nor not - dependent on which census is more accurate - but I can't help wondering whether they were related.  So much of my family interbred!

There's mention of the MORRIS family and Penllech and the memberships of chapels in the area on line in information on Genuki, most of which has been completed by Gareth Hicks - and has added to my knowledge of the family.

I am going to put a post on the Carmarthenshire forum to see whether anyone else has researched the MORGANS of Betws!

Kind regards

[osprey]

witnesses to Rees Penry's marriage aren't so exotic - William Williams & John Davies.

[fisherj]

Thanks again - and please would you let me know the full names of both the witnesses at Anne PENRY and Thomas MORGAN's marriage.