Old Colliers Arms

[DavidGwynforJones]

Response to Hanes Teulu,
Yes I see what you mean - two Colliers pubs apparently in the same area.
My father, John Idwal Jones lived in a place called Colliers in Trimsaran from 1933 (at least) up to 1946. His father, named John came up in the 1901 Census as living in Old Colliers Arms. This name jumped out at me although it is not identical.   

John Jones age in the census also made sense to me. His first son, Clifford was born in 1912. But I am not 100% certain it is my grandfather John  in the 1901 census. You know the rest of the details in that census entry. Thanks again for your help and interest. David

[hanes teulu]

Thanks for the response.
To start, check the Census for
1911 - Matilda Jones, age 23, born Pembrey

1901 - ref RG13  5020  21  34
Matilda Jones, 12, born 1889 Pembrey

1891 - ref RG12 4497  63  16
Lettice Jones, age 13, born Pembrey

1881 - ref RG11 5376  74  27
Lettice Jones, age 1, born Pembrey
(Note the change in wife's name from Mary in 1911 and 1891)

Glad you confirmed we're looking in the Trimsaran area.

Marriage details to follow (off to plot to dig/pick evening meal)

pob lwc

[hanes teulu]

FindMyPast Marriage (can be viewed online)
Date - 14 Nov 1876); Place - LLandyry Chapel of Ease
Richard Jones, age 22, Bachelor, Farm Servant, Residence - Moat, father Thomas Jones, Collier
Ann Erasmus, age 22, Spinster, Residence - Colliers, father David Erasmus, Farmer

The ages at marriage don't quite fit 1881 Census already posted

General Register Office Birth Registrations
Mary Jones, Dec 1877, Llanelly, 11a 783 - mother's maiden name Erasmus
Lettice Jones, Sep 1879, Llanelly, 11a 747 - mother's maiden name Erasmus
Catherine Jones, Mar 1882, Llanelly, 11a 774 - mother's maiden name Erasmus

Only Lettice on the 1881 Census.

On the 1911 Census Richard says "married 29 years" ie. c. 1882. But struggling to find a marriage for a Richard Jones and Mary ? around this time in that locale.
The death of an Anne Jones, age 24, Sep Qtr 1882, Llanelly, 11a 384  would fit the 1881 Census age of 23.

Things to think about

 

 

[DavidGwynforJones]

Dear hanes teulu

Thanks for doing the searches you posted.
I think I have found a possible husband for Mary J Jones my great grandmother.

If "Colliers", where my father lived is the same place as Old Colliers Arms below where his father is John Jones then then census entry below for 19011 is correct. (The age makes sense. John Jones is 10 in 1901 making him 21 in 1912 when his first son Clifford was born.) 

1901 Census (ref RG13 5091 112 9)
OLD COLLIERS ARMS, Pembrey
Mary Jones, Wife, Marr, 41, born Pembrey
Children - May 12, John 10, Thomas 9, Catherine 2 - all born Pembrey
(No one recorded "Head" of household.)

and I calculated that  only May Jones from the 1901 census (12 years old then) would be alive in the 1891 census and I found this in the 1891 census below. There is now a head of household whi could be my grandfather John Jones' father?!

1891 census Ref RG12 4431
Head   David B Jones
31
Wife   Mary J Jones
32
Daughter   May J Jones
7 days
Visitor   Sarah J Watkins
33
Servant   Elizabeth Harding
13
Relative   Thomas Richards
62

Does this make sense? I'm only a beginner. David

[hanes teulu]

David,
We all start off as beginners "a very good place to start". But basing your research on an address isn't sufficient, you need something more substantial. More than one family named Jones, with "Colliers" as an address in their past, isn't coincidence, it's a safe bet!
What do you know about your grandfather? Have you confirmed what you know with any documents - birth certificate, marriage certificate? John Jones is a tough nut to crack.
What do you know about your grandmother? Would you know her maiden name?

I'll send you a Private Message about the 1891 Census you found.

I've identified the same Jones family possibly in the 1881, 1891, 1901 and 1911 Censuses and which in 1891 and 1901 had "Colliers" or "Old Colliers" in the address. It includes the 1901 family you originally posted. But whether the John Jones in that family is "your" John Jones has yet to be determined.

 
   
 

[DavidGwynforJones]

Thanks for all the help about Old Colliers Arms. I had one very lucky breakthrough and now have a very detailed family tree.

[hanes teulu]

The Colliers Arms, Trimsaran is marked on this map.
http://maps.nls.uk/view/102179966