Why are so many LDS/FamilySearch index entries next to useless?

[Tickettyboo]

1) If I search for an Elizabeth Brown x in Northumberland in 1891 to parents James & Isabella I get this:

Name: Elizabeth Brown
Christening Event Date: 1 Feb 1891
Event Place:   Newcastle upon Tyne, Northumberland, England, United Kingdom
Gender:   Female
Father's Name: James Brown
Mother's Name:   Isabella Brown

Success! I now know that the baptism record that I'm seeking is out there somewhere in Newcastle but because the parish isn't specified I don't know which of 20 or 30 parishes to check, or indeed whether to look in Church of England records, non-conformist records, Catholic records etc.

This is the record that comes up if I replicate your search:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N6VZ-33J

On the right of the page, if I click on the down arrow where it says Document Info, that tells me that This info was indexed from images on film 1469113  and a digital folder 004629002

Search for that film number in the catalogue and that tells me the baptism took place at the chapelry of St Pauls, Elswick , in the parish of Newcastle St Nicholas.

https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/519530?availability=Family%20History%20Library

I am not a church member, don't know much about their beliefs or how much detail is required for their ancestor research. From what little I know the eventual aim is for an index to be linked to the image the information came from, so barebones details in an index is possibly enough for those purposes.
They are still a  long way from achieving this digitising and linking, and for general access to images they are often strictly limited by the record holders  regarding access to a lot of images, church members or non church members, and where, at an FHC or from home. (Northumberland is very insistent about this).

Can't say if the above method will work every time, but on the whole I find it useful.  It may not been seen as ideal/ convenient by a lot of people, but if it gets me the info I need I am happy.
I am very grateful to the LDS for their generosity in sharing their databases/ images where they are allowed to with non church members such as myself.

Boo

[jon541]

Thanks Boo for sharing your expertise.  I see from my notes (because the example I used is from my own research) that I must have followed the same route as yourself as I have a research task logged to do a lookup in the St. Paul's Elswick register MF the next time that I make it North to Tyne and Wear Archives.

I'm sure that I have come across many more examples where that technique won't work but because I haven't kept a note, I can't immediately quote them.  I think my inner scientist/historian just needed to vent yesterday about the lack of specificity in some of the citations ;-)

Enough said though.  It's a great resource despite the occasional frustration so amen to your comments about the LDS church's generosity. 

Shume - I think they share whatever they are allowed to, so providing the records have been digitised, I think the frustrating message about only being able to view at an LDS centre will always be down to a rights issue.

[Flemming]

I've found something similar with baptism places that originally were input correctly (e.g. a parish in Staffordshire) and then been altered for some reason to a place in Ohio, US. The original correct parish can still be seen on the entry's full details but not in the short index, and the search function only works for Ohio. Over 20 ancestral links were 'lost' in this way and only found when 'Location' was changed from England to the US.

FS wasn't really that interested when I contacted them about it and said it was the data owner's issue. I asked why a UK data owner would be changing its own records to show Ohio, US but no answer to this. I wondered if it was anything to do with the new option for users to amend records.

I've had a similar issue with another location but lost the will to contact FS and don't have it off the top of my head. I appreciate that the service is free, and it's a great asset, but still believe it could be even better with only a little more effort.

It did amuse me that FS wanted to know how I was related to these people, and where was my FS tree, and why weren't they linked to the tree. It felt like an apple and pears email exchange.

[Millmoor]

I may be missing something but the collection " England, Northumberland Non - Conformist Church Records" does seem to illustrate the points made by jon541.

In the enclosed example, which as far as I can tell,  is typical of this collection no exact location is given and the document information does not have a film number only a digital folder number. Any thoughts on how to work out exactly where the baptism took place, other than visiting a family search centre?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:ZHKM-26ZM

William

[Tickettyboo]

Hi William

I tried that digital folder number in the catalogue - in the film number search

It brings this up
https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/171145?availability=Family%20History%20Library

So its a (probably handwritten) transcript of various NC parishes and the original manuscript is available at Newcastle Central Library. Other than that, whenever they re-open they will be available to view at an FHC.

EDIT there are lots of films which have a mixture of parishes. As I said before, FS is primarily (quite rightly) set up for the benefit of church members and their religious beliefs. As such, when all the images are linked to the index entries the members either from home with their personal church related log in, or at an FHC will be able to search, see the index and click through to the image.

Though it would be nice for non members, such as myself, to also do that (and I am sure the LDS would find that easier), the agreements with various record holders do not always allow that.


Boo

[Millmoor]

Thanks for the quick reply, Boo. I have actually yet to find any of "my lot" in this particular collection but felt it was worth asking the question!

William

[josey]

I think FS are putting all transcriptions they possess online, whether the information was complete or not [eg no location or date]. As time goes by they are having previously transcribed records re-transcribed so that more fields can be included in a standardised digital format which can be linked to the images so that ALL the  information can be gleaned by the researcher & the original record be seen without going to an archive.

Like Erato, I'm an atheist who is extremely grateful to LDS for sharing the work of global transcribing volunteers [including myself!!]. Also for funding the storage, physically in a mountain and digitally on servers, and digitisation of many many records as well as the free availability on a huge website with all the necessary software.

[JenB]

Hi William

I tried that digital folder number in the catalogue - in the film number search

It brings this up
https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/171145?availability=Family%20History%20Library

So its a (probably handwritten) transcript of various NC parishes and the original manuscript is available at Newcastle Central Library. Other than that, whenever they re-open they will be available to view at an FHC.

On the other hand if you click on the link below the words 'Record Collection you get this result for the same collection:

Non-Conformist Church records from the county of Northumberland containing baptisms/christenings, marriages, and deaths from the following religions in Northumberland: Catholic, Presbyterian, Congregation, Wesleyan, Methodist, Independent, Scotch, Quaker (Society of Friends), Unitarian, Baptist, United, Swedenborgian, and Protestant.

By the way, I am not complaining, just making an observation. I use FS records extensively and I'm very grateful for them.

[Ian Nelson]

They used to have an EDIT function into which you could point out ERRORS.  Not there any longer.  Have you ever tried to CORRECT an OBVIOUS ERROR.  They make it almost impossible to contact them without jumping through hoops.
Here's today's example.
I'm wanting to FACT CHECK my Nelson Ancestors in Norfolk, England.
I enter Rachel Howman, born 1802 in Great Ryburgh, Norfolk dau of Peter Howman and Lydia Ainger.
First entry looks OK until I click on the Family TREE symbol and discover someone has added EVERIT as John Nelson's father. 
A few entries further down the page of Search Results I find Rachel Howman married to John WILSON.
There is a copy of the Bishop's Transcript to magnify and check ... lo and behold .. it says John NELSON, witnessed by Elizabeth Nelson, quite clearly, unless you are half blind or stupid.
I then spent 40 minutes trying to EDIT it but gave that up and tried to find a way of sending a message by email or through the website like I used to do years ago.  Can't find a satisfactory way of CORRECTING their ERRORS.
What price is FREE when you get GARBAGE IN - GARBAGE OUT, my time is not only valuable, it's precious and in increasingly short supply.   Stuff LDS.