Author Topic: O'Donnell Family Carrick on Suir, co Tipperary Ireland 19th/20th Century  (Read 2028 times)

Offline hols92

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O'Donnell Family Carrick on Suir, co Tipperary Ireland 19th/20th Century
« on: Tuesday 11 August 20 22:04 BST (UK) »
Hi! I am new to all this but have been trying to discover as much as I can about my family history.
I recently discovered my Grandfather; John O'Donnell born 1902 in Carrick on Suir.
This is what I know so far and would love if anyone could help me any further.
His Father Thomas O'Donnell and Mother Ellen Curran (Maiden Name) were married in Carrick on Suir and had 7 children - Mary, James, Patrick, John (my grandfather), Bridget, William and Ellie.
They lived together at House 3, Red Garden, Carrick on Suir, co Tipperary according to the Ireland Census 1911.
My Grandfather went on to join the Royal Munster Fusiliers 2nd Battalion in 1919 til 1922 in WW1 and served in Egypt during this time.
He somehow ended up in Watford, Hertfordshire, England where he met my Grandmother and my father was then born in 1949 he was around until my father was approx. age 2 and I know nothing of him after that.

I have been told a story by a relative of the Curran/Cunningham/Connelly side of my family that my one of my Grandfathers siblings was shot dead on his door step by the Black and Tan, so very interested in knowing more about that too.
I would so love to know more about my family and particularly my Grandfather. If anyone can help me with this, I would be so grateful!!
I am currently signed up to Ancestry and Find my past but have seemed to have drawn a dead end.
I look forward to contact from anyone with an insight.


Online gaffy

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Re: O'Donnell Family Carrick on Suir, co Tipperary Ireland 19th/20th Century
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 13 August 20 03:03 BST (UK) »

... His Father Thomas O'Donnell and Mother Ellen Curran (Maiden Name) were married in Carrick on Suir and had 7 children - Mary, James, Patrick, John (my grandfather), Bridget, William and Ellie.
They lived together at House 3, Red Garden, Carrick on Suir, co Tipperary according to the Ireland Census 1911
...


Hello and welcome.  :)  The 1911 census return (linked below for the convenience of readers) shows an eighth living child Eliza and indicates 9 children born by that point (there was a son Thomas born and died in 1896):
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Tipperary/Carrick_on_Suir__Urban_/Red_Garden/839966/

Again for the convenience of readers, the family in 1901:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tipperary/Carrick_On_Suir/Grey_Stone_Street/1694205/

But I've hit an issue with birth registrations for the children. Thomas O'Donnell married Ellen Curran in 1891, nothing unexpected there:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1891/10663/5885179.pdf

I can see birth registrations for the older O'Donnell children shown in the 1911 census return, again nothing unexpected there, for example, here is Patrick O'Donnell's birth in 1900:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1900/01982/1763439.pdf
   
But when I search for O'Donnell birth registrations for the younger children shown in that 1911 census return, I can't find them. The only births I can find in the relevant area and time period, with a mother called Ellen Curran, are registered as Byrne, for example:

- Bridget Byrne b. 1904:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1904/01803/1706639.pdf
- William Byrne b. 1906:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1907/01706/1676273.pdf
- Ellen Byrne b. 1909:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1909/01610/1645954.pdf

A couple with the same names (Thomas Byrne and Ellen Curran) also had these two children:

- Johanna b. 1911:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1911/01516/1615685.pdf
- Christina b. 1913:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1913/01428/1586146.pdf

In the above 1913 registration for Christina Byrne, the surname was subsequently corrected in 1941 to O'Donnell by statutory declaration by Bridget ? and Eileen Haywood 'two credible persons having knowledge of the fact of the case'.

Have I got the wrong folk? Or was Thomas O'Donnell a.k.a. Thomas Byrne? I also wondered if the Byrne witnesses to the 1891 marriage were significant?   


... I recently discovered my Grandfather; John O'Donnell born 1902 in Carrick on Suir ...


Funnily enough, that is the one birth registration that I haven't yet found in Carrick on Suir.


Online Girl Guide

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Re: O'Donnell Family Carrick on Suir, co Tipperary Ireland 19th/20th Century
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 13 August 20 08:18 BST (UK) »
Welcome to Rootschat Hols  :D

Do you know the maiden surname of your grandmother?  I can see only one male birth in 1949 in Hertfordshire and the registration district is St. Albans.

Was your father definitely born in Hertfordshire or could he have been born elsewhere?  Do I assume that your father is still alive?

Ashford: Somerset, London
England: Devon, London, New Zealand
Holdway: Wiltshire
Hooper: Bristol, Somerset
Knowling: Devon, London
Southcott: Devon, China
Strong: Wiltshire
Watson: Cambridgeshire
White: Bristol
Windo - Gloucestershire, Somerset, Wiltshire


Online Girl Guide

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Re: O'Donnell Family Carrick on Suir, co Tipperary Ireland 19th/20th Century
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 13 August 20 08:28 BST (UK) »
I did find a transcription of when John enlisted but there was no image to see.

First name(s)   John
Last name   O'Donnell
Birth year   1902
Birth place   Carrick-On-Suir, Tipperary
Birth county   Tipperary
Occupation on enlistment   Farm Labourer
Regiment   Royal Munster Fusiliers
Service number   7211746
Attestation date   28 Jun 1919
Age on attestation   17 29/
Attestation place   Cork
Address of next of kin   Long Lane, Carrick-on-Suir, Tipperary

From British Army, Irish Regimental Enlistment Registers 1877-1924
Ashford: Somerset, London
England: Devon, London, New Zealand
Holdway: Wiltshire
Hooper: Bristol, Somerset
Knowling: Devon, London
Southcott: Devon, China
Strong: Wiltshire
Watson: Cambridgeshire
White: Bristol
Windo - Gloucestershire, Somerset, Wiltshire

Online gaffy

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Re: O'Donnell Family Carrick on Suir, co Tipperary Ireland 19th/20th Century
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 13 August 20 09:08 BST (UK) »


... I recently discovered my Grandfather; John O'Donnell born 1902 in Carrick on Suir ...


Funnily enough, that is the one birth registration that I haven't yet found in Carrick on Suir.


I've found a transcript of what I suspect is a baptism for John, he was baptised in the RC parish of Trinity Without (15 miles SE of Carrick on Suir in Waterford City) on 8 June 1902, parents listed as Thomas O'Donnell and Ellen Curran of Philip Street, the sponsors were John Forristal and Margaret Kerins.  I still can't see a civil birth registration, so I'm wondering if Thomas and Ellen were just visiting someone in the city or otherwise there temporarily and the civil birth registration for John got forgotten about in returning home to Carrick on Suir?

I can also see transcripts of baptisms for Patrick (1900) and Bridget (1904), the one for Bridget is important, for it sits well with the civil birth registration for Bridget Byrne (that I posted above at Reply #1) in all but surname.  In the transcript, she was recorded as Brigid O'Donnell, baptised in Carrick on Suir RC parish on 18 September 1904, the address given as Town Wall, parents Thomas O'Donnell and Ellen Curran, sponsors James and Eliza Cunningham.

So baptised O'Donnell and registered as Byrne.  Hmmm...


Offline Sinann

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Re: O'Donnell Family Carrick on Suir, co Tipperary Ireland 19th/20th Century
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 13 August 20 10:20 BST (UK) »
1924 Munster Express, Mr Quirke sought to get possession of the house occupied by Thomas O'Donnell Long Land, case dismissed due to incorrect serving of notice to quit.

Thomas O'Donnell and neighbour John Donovan clearly don't get on, they appear in court more that once for fairly petty issues, abusive language and such, a daughter Josephine O'Donnell gets a mention.

Offline hols92

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Re: O'Donnell Family Carrick on Suir, co Tipperary Ireland 19th/20th Century
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 13 August 20 12:33 BST (UK) »
Thank you so much everyone!
This is so amazing and super insightful..
So my Grandmothers maiden name was Amelia Louise Masters.

I am so intrigued about this 'Byrne' business but it answers a few questions too. There is a Christine Elizabeth O'Donnell (now Beckingham) who was a daughter of Thomas O'Donnell and Ellen Curran and I wondered if she was perhaps the "Eliza" on the 1911 Census?
Where did you see the change in name from Byrne to O'Donnell as I wonder if the Eileen that changed it is in fact Christines daughter, Eileen C Beckingham? And Bridget, the Bridget O'Donnell we see in the 1911 census?

Do we think that the Josephine O'Donnell mentioned in the petty affairs with John Donavan is the Johanna Byrne that has been discovered?

Any future help would be so great!!

Offline hols92

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Re: O'Donnell Family Carrick on Suir, co Tipperary Ireland 19th/20th Century
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 13 August 20 13:57 BST (UK) »
I have found evidence that there was Christina O'Donnell but she can't have been born in 1912/13 as she was married in 1919 to Ernest L Beckingham. She died Jan 1985 in Exmouth and this death record has her birth date as 19 September 1899 making her a sure shoe in for the Eliza O'Donnell in the 1911 Census?

Could she perhaps have not been registered until 1913?
Could anyone shed any light on this?

Offline hols92

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Re: O'Donnell Family Carrick on Suir, co Tipperary Ireland 19th/20th Century
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 13 August 20 14:14 BST (UK) »
Also the James and Eliza Cunningham who witnessed Bridgets Baptism are Brother in law and sister of Ellen Curran  :)