Author Topic: Finding Elizabeth Hayes, born abt 1833, Belfast  (Read 625 times)

Offline jonw65

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Re: Finding Elizabeth Hayes, born abt 1833, Belfast
« Reply #9 on: Thursday 13 August 20 23:32 BST (UK) »
A baptism of Elizabeth at Warrington.
2 Feb 1833
Elizabeth
Daughter of Samuel + Jane Hayes
abode Town's End
father a Labourer

From the BT, but the parish register is on FamilySearch
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9GF-598Z-R?i=222

Offline Buffnut453

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Re: Finding Elizabeth Hayes, born abt 1833, Belfast
« Reply #10 on: Friday 14 August 20 01:40 BST (UK) »
William Abbott didn't waste much time.  His wife Ellen died Sept qtr 1860 and he remarried Dec qtr 1860

So looking at the 1861 entry Elizabeth does not appear to have had any children by Ashton which could have given us a clue to husbands name

Is she shown as a widow on the 1860 marriage cert as there is an 1851 entry for an Elizabeth Ashton b 1832 Ireland but living in Liverpool - single

Hi CaroleW,

Indeed, William Abbott didnt hang about after his wife's death.

The marriage record on Lancashire Online Parish Clerks shows William Abbott marrying Elizabeth Ashton, a widow.  The bride's father is Samuel Hayes, a wire drawer.

Offline Buffnut453

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Re: Finding Elizabeth Hayes, born abt 1833, Belfast
« Reply #11 on: Friday 14 August 20 07:46 BST (UK) »
A baptism of Elizabeth at Warrington.
2 Feb 1833
Elizabeth
Daughter of Samuel + Jane Hayes
abode Town's End
father a Labourer

From the BT, but the parish register is on FamilySearch
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9GF-598Z-R?i=222

Jon,

Sorry for not responding sooner to you splendid series of posts.  I think you may have broken the code on this part of my family tree.  I've been searching and searching for years trying to solve this one...and you managed to crack it in a few hours.  You're a genealogy God!!!!

I'll follow up on your findings and probably order birth certificates, where available, to confirm details.  Given the Christening date in Warrington in 1833, it is possible that Elizabeth was born in Ireland.  Perhaps Jane went home for some reason while heavily pregnant.  However, that would be unusual for the time. 

Of course, I now need to track down Jane in Ireland...so I may be back in a while with a new thread on her line (I truly have had zero joy with any of my Irish ancestors).

Once again, many, MANY thanks for all your help.  This really is wonderful research.

Kind regards,
Mark


Offline Buffnut453

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Re: Finding Elizabeth Hayes, born abt 1833, Belfast
« Reply #12 on: Friday 14 August 20 07:52 BST (UK) »
Reply removed - 1841 details already given above

Hi Carole,

No worries.  I do appreciate your inputs.  Between you and jonw65 I've gone from a dead-end to having enough data to really piece this family together.  I appreciate your efforts on my behalf.

Kind regards,
Mark

Offline Buffnut453

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Re: Finding Elizabeth Hayes, born abt 1833, Belfast
« Reply #13 on: Friday 14 August 20 12:57 BST (UK) »
Possible marriage at Portsea, 8 May 1831
Samuel Hayes
+
Eliza Jane Searle
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q571-2FXZ

Hi Jon,

Not so sure about that one.  There's a Christening record from 1833 that appears to be related to this family:

Name:   Elizabeth Jane Ann Hayes
Gender:   Female
Baptism Date:   31 Jul 1833
Baptism Place:   Saint Thomas,Portsmouth,Hampshire,England
Father:   Samuel Hayes
Mother:   Eliza Jane
FHL Film Number:   919727, 919728

Given that we have a Christening record for an Elizabeth Hayes in Warrington in Feb 1833, I'd be surprised if this was the same family. 

Cheers,
Mark

Offline Buffnut453

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Re: Finding Elizabeth Hayes, born abt 1833, Belfast
« Reply #14 on: Friday 14 August 20 17:31 BST (UK) »
Having previously posted my doubts about the marriage of Samuel Hayes to Eliza Jane Searle in Portsea, I'm now inclined to think that may be the same family.  A search of Christenings in Warrington during the period 1830-1850 throws up the following, several of which list "Eliza Jane" or "Eliza" as the mother's name, and which tally with the names and dates in the 1851 Census:

Baptism: 3 Feb 1833 St Elphin, Warrington, Lancashire, England
Elizabeth Hayes - Daur of Samuel Hayes & Jane
    Abode: Townsend
    Occupation: Labourer
    Baptised by: T V Bayne
    Register: Baptisms 1831 - 1835, Page 110, Entry 880
    Source: LDS Film 1562962

Baptism: 1 Feb 1835 St Elphin, Warrington, Lancashire, England
Henry Serle Heyes - Son of Samuel Heyes & Eliza
    Abode: Haydock Street
    Occupation: Labourer
    Baptised by: T V Bayne
    Register: Baptisms 1831 - 1835, Page 257, Entry 2050
    Source: LDS Film 1562962

Baptism: 29 Oct 1837 St Elphin, Warrington, Lancashire, England
Samuel Hayes - Son of Samuel Hayes & Eliza Jane
    Abode: Haydock Street
    Occupation: Labourer
    Baptised by: T V Bayne
    Register: Baptisms 1835 - 1838, Page 159, Entry 1267
    Source: LDS Film 1532962

Baptism: 16 Aug 1840 St Elphin, Warrington, Lancashire, England
Henry Searle Hayes - [Child] of Samuel Hayes & Eliza
    Abode: Winwick Street
    Occupation: Labourer
    Baptised by: Allan Wallace
    Register: Baptisms 1838 - 1845, Page 131, Entry 1046
    Source: LDS Film 1562963

Baptism: 27 Nov 1842 St Elphin, Warrington, Lancashire, England
Helen Fanny Hayes - [Child] of Samuel Hayes & Eliza
    Abode: Winwick Street
    Occupation: Hair Cutter
    Baptised by: F A Bartlett
    Register: Baptisms 1838 - 1845, Page 258, Entry 2061
    Source: LDS Film 1562963

Baptism: 6 Apr 1845 St Elphin, Warrington, Lancashire, England
John Hayes - [Child] of Samuel Hayes & Elizabeth Jane
    Abode: Turners Fold
    Occupation: Labourer
    Baptised by: J H Sharples
    Register: Baptisms 1838 - 1845, Page 399, Entry 3186
    Source: LDS Film 1562963

Baptism: 12 Dec 1847 St Paul, Warrington, Lancashire, England
Mary Heys - Daugr of Samuel Mather Heys & Eliza Jane
    Abode: Turner's Fold
    Occupation: Wire Drawer
    Baptised by: B. M. Huntington Curate
    Register: Baptisms 1831 - 1855, Page 88, Entry 707
    Source: Original Parish Register

Baptism: 14 Jul 1850 St Paul, Warrington, Lancashire, England
John Hayes - Son of Samuel Hayes & Jane
    Abode: Town's End
    Occupation: Wire Drawer
    Baptised by: B. M. Huntington Curate
    Register: Baptisms 1831 - 1855, Page 121, Entry 975
    Source: Original Parish Register

Sorry if Jonw65 and others had already made this discovery/connection...I'm playing catch-up here after a very busy week, and there's a lot to go through based on the discoveries in this thread.   

Offline Buffnut453

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Re: Finding Elizabeth Hayes, born abt 1833, Belfast
« Reply #15 on: Friday 14 August 20 18:12 BST (UK) »
And here are a few burials:

Burial: 13 Jan 1839 St Elphin, Warrington, Lancashire, England
Henry Searle Hayes -
    Age: 4
    Abode: Winwick Street
    Buried by: Geo Richards Curate
    Register: Burials 1836 - 1841, Page 142, Entry 1131
    Source: LDS Film 1562962

Burial: 2 Dec 1846 St Elphin, Warrington, Lancashire, England
John Hayes -
    Age: 2
    Abode: Turners Fold
    Buried by: A A Bridgman
    Register: Burials 1841 - 1847, Page 292, Entry 2333
    Source: LDS Film 1562963

Offline Buffnut453

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Re: Finding Elizabeth Hayes, born abt 1833, Belfast
« Reply #16 on: Friday 14 August 20 18:48 BST (UK) »
Which still leaves the interesting question of 2 daughters named Elizabeth, one Christened in Warrington in Feb 1833 and the other in Portsmouth in Jul of the same year:

Baptism: 3 Feb 1833 St Elphin, Warrington, Lancashire, England
Elizabeth Hayes - Daur of Samuel Hayes & Jane
    Abode: Townsend
    Occupation: Labourer
    Baptised by: T V Bayne
    Register: Baptisms 1831 - 1835, Page 110, Entry 880
    Source: LDS Film 1562962

Name:   Elizabeth Jane Ann Hayes
Gender:   Female
Baptism Date:   31 Jul 1833
Baptism Place:   Saint Thomas,Portsmouth,Hampshire,England
Father:   Samuel Hayes
Mother:   Eliza Jane
FHL Film Number:   919727, 919728

The Portsmouth event is the only Christening associated with parents Samuel and Eliza Jane in the Portsmouth area within a decade either side of 1833.  I can find no other Christenings at all in England during the same timeframe with those parental names except for the known events in Warrington that we've already identified. 

I'm struggling to correlate these events.  The only possible explanation I can come up with is that the 2 events relate to the same person and that, for some reason, Samuel and Eliza Jane decided to have their daughter Elizabeth Christened twice, once in Portsmouth and once in Warrington.  I'd be more accepting of that scenario if the Portsmouth event happened first but, unfortunately, it was the second event.  I'm struggling to understand how/why a working class family would want, or have the ability, to travel from Warrington to Portsmouth and then return in such short order (given that Henry Searle Hayes was Christened in Warrington in 1835). 

Any thoughts on this would be very much appreciated. 

Offline Buffnut453

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Re: Finding Elizabeth Hayes, born abt 1833, Belfast
« Reply #17 on: Friday 14 August 20 19:51 BST (UK) »
I realise I'm somewhat talking to myself with all these posts (I'm trying to catch up with Jonw65).

I looked up the image of the marriage record for Samuel Heyes and Eliza Jane Searle in 1831.  It seems that Samuel was in the British Army.  Next to his name appears to be written "47 Regt" which might explain the movement to/from Ireland, and perhaps how Samuel met Eliza Jane.