Scientific instrument case maker

[jjq]

Hi
My grandfather James William Sutton 1867-1951 was variously described as:
French polisher
Masterman cabinet maker
Scientific instrument casemaker.

Lived in Clerkenwell  till the 1930s when he moved to Edgware, Middlesex.

Said to be in business with his brother, Joseph Robert Sutton, as Sutton Brothers.

My query is...would he have served an apprenticeship? I have been unable to find any guild records etc. so far.
Any suggestions for avenues of research would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance

[Rena]

Hopefully somebody will come along with the information you want for the era.

My ancestors who were given apprenticeships in various trades didn't appear in any database.

The reason being is that (apparently)  there were no fees to be paid to either the relevant guild or the government when they were trained by a relative.

[jjq]

Thanks for the reply.

His father was an iron founders labourer (previously in Royal Navy) and no other similar occupations found in the family.

I'll just keep looking!!

[guest189040]

James seems to fall in the cracks in that he is a Scholar with parents in 1881 and married with a child in 1891 with a profession as a French Polisher.

Now in 1891 Joseph was a Lad in a Clothing Warehouse so he was unlikely to serve an Apprenticship.

James could have served as a French Polisher which was a skilled trade in its own right and in fact I used to have an Engineers Mate working for me when I was myself a time served Engineering Fitter and he was a time served French Polisher with the world famous firm Waring and Gillow.

Given the boom times in the Victorian era it is very possible that James did indeed serve an apprenticship but if it was not indentured then he would have had difficulty in obtaining paid work as an employee with the best outcome being in business for themselves.

With the advent of production machinary being developed the ability to make quality items of repeated accuracy and finish with them being produced very quick compared to the manual method then being in ones own business would have been very lucrative.

My own Great Great Grandfather set up their Joinery and Building Company in Bradford in the 1860's and the business traded for 150 years.  If you look at the image I have as an icon the person on the left is Nathan who took over the business when his Father died.

Hope this helps.

[jjq]

Hi

Thanks for your reply - it sounds like that may be the situation. I know where his workshops were (the lower level of house where he lived with wife, children and a couple of lodgers!). I am going to try and follow the family in the rate books etc to pinpoint dates etc.

(A couple of his 7 sons worked in the family business.)

Thank you again.

[guest189040]

One more thing, do Google:-

Apprentice pieces

And you will see the miniature cabinets that an apprentice would make to show off their skills, you sometimes also see them on the various Antiques shows that there are on TV.

Good luck with your research.

[Rena]

A bit of a longshot of how a person could gain a skill in the 19th century.   I know how to french poilish a piece of furniture because I've seen a tutorial on television.

My grandfather, born 1868, served an engineering apprenticeship and eventually became a boiler inspector for an insurance company.

He also had other skills gained at the local Mechanics Institute.  One skill being a new fangled "radio ham".  From Wikipedia it can be seen it was used as a night school to learn new skills.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechanics%27_institutes

 

[Skoosh]

The Trade Incorporations in Scotland lost control in the latter part of the 19th century due to industrialisation, the Guilds remained in the form of social/charitable clubs. Most apprentices would not have joined a trade-guild!

Skoosh.