Author Topic: Catherine Brennan (Brannan?) b 1840s Mullingar or Rochfortbridge  (Read 2203 times)

Offline GeoffTurner

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Catherine Brennan (Brannan?) b 1840s Mullingar or Rochfortbridge
« on: Saturday 05 September 20 08:58 BST (UK) »
Hi all,

My great grandmother Catherine Brennan was born in this area of Ireland  the 1840s. The age she gave when she emigrated to Australia in 1875 would have her born in 1850. The age she gave when she married in Australia would have her born even later (but she would have had every reason to want to appear younger). We think she was probably born about 1848, and that is the year on her death certificate. However, there is a baptism at Rochfortbridge on 14 May 1844 which may be her. That would make her 44 when the last of her five sons was born.

On the baptism register she is listed as Catherine Brennan, daughter of Dennis and Catherine. We think her parents were Dennis Brennan or Brannan, a schoolmaster, and Catherine Talt (sometimes read as Tait or Falt). They married at Rochfortbridge on 22 May 1835. That is the simple part.

We have a half-cousin DNA match with descendants of Bridget Brennan, whose parents are said to have been Dennis Brennan, a teacher, and Catherine Maybury. They married in Coolbane, County Kerry, on 27 Jan 1842 and their daughter Bridget was born there in 1843. I'm not sure that County Kerry documents are as accessible as Westmeath ones are.

We gather that Dennis was born in Coolbane in about 1810 and died there on 24 Apr 1844 -- apparently around the time Catherine Talt was having my great grandmother in County Westmeath.  It would be easy to say there must have been two teachers named Dennis Brennan, one in Kerry and one in Westmeath, but the DNA suggests they are the same man.

For this to work, he would have to be born in Kerry, take a job in Westmeath, marry Catherine Talt, go home to Kerry for some reason, meet Catherine Maybury and get her pregnant with Bridget (and marry her bigamously), then go back to Westmeath, get Catherine Talt pregnant with my great grandmother, then shoot through back to Kerry where he dies about the time my great grandmother is being born in Westmeath.

If I knew how to get death certificates I'd be interested to see if he was sick or if the Maybury family caught up with him! We have a Maybury history which concentrates on religious aspects of the family but says "Catherine (c.1817-1862), married Denis Brennan, a Catholic, and, after his death, the brother of David Moriarty, the Catholic bishop of Kerry".

At the time of her own marriage in Australia to my great grandfather William Turner, Catherine Brennan said her mother was Catherine Newman, not Talt, so I'm not sure how that fits in (but my great grandfather got his mother's maiden name wrong, too!). Her death certificate says she was born at Mullingar in 1848, but of course that information came from one of her sons.

My basic question is: Is there any way I could get hold of Dennis Brennan's death certificate? (I am in Australia). If they are anything like the Australia ones, it would list all children etc. Or are they likely to have been lost in the Dublin fire?

Any other help would be appreciated too, of course.

Thanks,
Geoff Turner


Offline Sinann

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Re: Catherine Brennan (Brannan?) b 1840s Mullingar or Rochfortbridge
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 05 September 20 10:44 BST (UK) »
There are no death certs before 1864, and they don't as a rule list any family unless the informant is a family member, sometimes wife of or child of is given but you wouldn't get that on an adult male.

Offline Sinann

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Re: Catherine Brennan (Brannan?) b 1840s Mullingar or Rochfortbridge
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 05 September 20 11:01 BST (UK) »
No Civil registrations were lost in the infamous fire

Earlier death cert images are not online yet
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-search.jsp
Just sign in and prove your not a robot, safe Government site.

Offline GeoffTurner

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Re: Catherine Brennan (Brannan?) b 1840s Mullingar or Rochfortbridge
« Reply #3 on: Monday 07 September 20 02:25 BST (UK) »
Thanks Sinann,

That gives me a better feel for Irish family research. I might also try posting in the Kerry page to see if I make any progress approaching the problem from that end.

Geoff


Offline Marcello

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Re: Catherine Brennan (Brannan?) b 1840s Mullingar or Rochfortbridge
« Reply #4 on: Monday 07 September 20 22:57 BST (UK) »
Hi Geoff,

This may help you in possibly ruling out that Dennis Brennan of Coolbane (d.1844) and Denis Brennan, husband of Catherine Talt, Rochfortbridge are the same person.

Baptism in Rochfortbridge, Co. Westmeath:-

Denis Brennan baptised 31st August *1846, parents Denis Brennan and Catherine Talt
(Last entry on left, p.187)

https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000635266#page/187/mode/1up

There is also an Anne Brennan, baptised 7th July 1836, parents Denis Brannen and Kitty Talt.

Marcello


Offline GeoffTurner

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Re: Catherine Brennan (Brannan?) b 1840s Mullingar or Rochfortbridge
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 08 September 20 00:35 BST (UK) »
Thanks Marcello,

I have just about decided that the Kerry family is a red herring. Perhaps Bridget was another child of Dennis Brennan and Catherine Talt, as yet unlocated. But presumably she should show up as a Rochfortbridge baptism as well, and you don't seem to have found her.

Bridget married in Dublin in 1881, so might have been one of the youngest children. She was of full age, a servant. and said her father was Denis Brennan, a labourer. Catherine Brennan said her father was a schoolmaster. If they were sisters, it's possible that in far-off Australia Catherine promoted her labourer father to schoolmaster (she could not write her name and signed with a mark). You would not expect Bridget to downgrade a schoolmaster to a labourer.

I don't know if there are any other places to look for a Bridget Brennan baptism. Perhaps they might have moved from Rochfortbridge by the time she was born?

Geoff

That would explain the DNA connection (Bridget's great granddaughter shows as my 3rd-4th cousin).


Offline heywood

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Re: Catherine Brennan (Brannan?) b 1840s Mullingar or Rochfortbridge
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 08 September 20 06:47 BST (UK) »
Is this the death of Bridget Brennan Doyle?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2WZX-13Y

If so, she would be probably be born in 1850s.
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Offline GeoffTurner

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Re: Catherine Brennan (Brannan?) b 1840s Mullingar or Rochfortbridge
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 08 September 20 06:53 BST (UK) »
I found a Bridget Brennan baptism, same parents, same place on 7 Feb 1842

https://registers.nli.ie/pages/vtls000635266_141

I think that has to be Catherine's sister, and that is the Bridget Brennan who married James Doyle in Dublin in 1881 and had a daughter Anne in Dublin in 1883. Then the family emigrated to the US. The DNA links we have are through Anne and her mother Bridget.

Catherine emigrated to Australia and married William Turner. She fudged her age by up to 10 years (new country, new persona) and boosted her labourer father to schoolmaster, even though she signed the register with a mark.

Some of the "re-interpretations" by Catherine have been making it hard to get a proper fix on her story before she came to Australia, I guess.

We now have her as a family of at least four children:

Anne bapt 7 Jul 1836
Bridget bapt 7 Feb 1842
Catherine bapt 14 May 1844
Denis Junior bapt 31 Aug 1846.

Thanks for all your help. We have been puzzling over Catherine for some time, and the DNA links have brought a recent unexplained dimension to the whole story.

Again, thanks one and all.

Geoff

Offline GeoffTurner

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Re: Catherine Brennan (Brannan?) b 1840s Mullingar or Rochfortbridge
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 08 September 20 06:59 BST (UK) »
Thanks for the death information. Age doesn't quite tally but the rest seems to fit. And we know Catherine was a bit fast and loose with the facts when it came to her age.

Geoff