William Burns & Bridget Healy

[majm]

The age of witnesses to NSW marriages in that era  .... that were up to the clergyman to determine ... it was more important for the clergyman o know that the witness understood their role ....  I have quite a collection of CofE marriages for rural NSW 1856-1895.  I am sure that some of the witnesses were as young as 12 or 13....    particularly if family members.   Even in the 1960s,  in NSW I attended a cousins  wedding ...  and her younger sister, born 1957, was one of the two witness signatures on the NSW BDM  registration.     

I think the Martha born 1869 would be too young to e a witness at Mary's wedding ?

ADD,  one of my ancient rellies, retired NSW bdm senior officer has phoned as I posted.  Yes, the NSWBDM info received from the clergy registering a marriage did not require the age of the witnesses.  Up to the clergy or celebrant to determine their competence... e.g. even today a very drunk best man would sign as witness,  in front of the invited guests but a third person may be discreetly asked to counter-sign, avoiding embarrassing the groom's choice.  But if bride or groom are "too drunk" then the ceremony should not proceed.   The age of witnesses has not really been tested under the no fault divorce laws, but it was tested in NSW Supreme Court in 1800s.  Chief Justice Stephens ruled.   My rellie will check  and if he can find the ruling, he will let me know.  I will post when I hear back.


JM

[judb]

Adding to Jm's post which has better historical information than my supposition  - If Martha was Mary's sister and born in 1869 she would have been 15 at the time of Mary's wedding.  While a witness probably should be an adult I'm not sure if there was an actual legal requirement.  I have three marriage certificates 1850s-1899 where one of the witnesses was only a teenager.

Judith

[majm]

Yes,  Judith is right, and err ... I have added more while she was posting.

JM

[sparrett]

Only one VIC birth with those folks:

19572/1869 BURNS Martha parents Bridget BURNS and William WHITE HLLS

Jamjar

Martha BURNS aged 30 born Raywood, Victoria married in 1899 at Bendigo to Michael CULLINEY.  Residence for both is Huntly.  Martha's parents named as William BURNS and Bridget BYRNES.

Debra 

This Martha BURNS may have been of this family at Huntly

Mrs Bridget Burns dies in 1917,widow of William Burnns of Huntly
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/90720861


William BURNS of Huntly dies 1915
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/91082780

Possibly a child of the marriage between William BURCH and Martha BURNES at Nymagee in 1888

BIRCH Mary A
21513/1888
Parents William & Martha
at NYMAGEE

Sue


 

[aussie-girl]

Further to this family, I wonder if anyone might be able to help me find a birth entry for Mary Burns,please
She was  born in 1866 in Reedy Creek Victoria to parents William Burns & Bridget Healey
I am at a loss to find anything
TIA AG

[majm]

Further to this family, I wonder if anyone might be able to help me find a birth entry for Mary Burns,please
She was  born in 1866 in Reedy Creek Victoria to parents William Burns & Bridget Healey
I am at a loss to find anything
TIA AG

Hi,

Vic BDM certs are very detailed, and birth certs include the details of that baby's older siblings.  So if you were to obtain the Vic BDM record for any of her younger siblings you should expect to find her name and then age  and confirmation of her parents origins too.

My Dubbo archive box did not give me any info on Roman Catholic marriages St Bridgets, Dubbo, for that decade...

Given the birth for Martha BURNS found by Jamjar with same parent names

19572/1869 BURNS Martha parents Bridget BURNS and William WHITE HLLS

it seems possible that Martha who was a witness at Mary's wedding may be her sister, so you may wish to purchase the certificate for Martha which should give the date and place of marriage of parents.  You probably know that images of Victorian registers can be downloaded immediately fpr $20
https://www.bdm.vic.gov.au/research-and-family-history/search-your-family-history

Sue also found some other births which may be siblings for Mary. 
1856/2866 BURNE Thomas, Parents William and Bridget BURNE, Back Creek
1873/3057 BURNS, Edward, Parents William and Bridget BURNS, Huntly

These three births are in/around Bendigo, Victoria.  Mary lists her birth as "Reedy Creek, Victoria" and yes there is a Reedy Creek in central Victoria, near Broadford - however there is a Reedy Creek which is a suburb of Bendigo.  IF these births are related then I suspect that Mary's birth may have been the Reedy Creek near  Bendigo.

From: https://localstats.com.au/demographics/vic/northern-victoria/bendigo/reedy-creek
Reedy Creek (3658) is a suburb of Northern Victoria, Bendigo, Victoria. It is about 63 kms from VIC's capital city of Melbourne. Reedy Creek is in the federal electorate of McEwen.

Plenty of Reedy Creeks in Victoria - others near Chiltern (Reedy Creek, Chiltern-Mt Pilot National Park), near Eldorado, near Lorne.

Judith

JM

[aussie-girl]

I had hoped some death notices for Mary Bradley in 1957 would show some hints as to her family . Ryerson index does not show a death notice ,even tho the librarian at our library,said it was on page 40 on the 5th December 1957 in The West Australian
Maybe someone else can have more luck ,please 'TIA AG

[aussie-girl]

After all the information I have , it appears the parents of Mary Burns are William Burns & Bridget Byrne not Healey as shown on marraige entry, Why this has happened I have no idea.
The friend I am helping sent for the Birth certificate for Martha Burns back in November & hasn't heard a whisper since then . We know with Covid Xmas etc they are busy  ,but......
So now we will concentrate on a birth entry for Mary Burn born 1866 in the Huntly area.Hope someone is able to help
Many Thanks
AG

[majm]

After all the information I have , it appears the parents of Mary Burns are William Burns & Bridget Byrne not Healey as shown on marraige entry, Why this has happened I have no idea.
The friend I am helping sent for the Birth certificate for Martha Burns back in November & hasn't heard a whisper since then . We know with Covid Xmas etc they are busy  ,but......
So now we will concentrate on a birth entry for Mary Burn born 1866 in the Huntly area.Hope someone is able to help
Many Thanks
AG

Something is amiss.   Where did your friend send for that birth certificate?   Usually you can use your plastic card and immediately download image if ordering Vic BDM historic records.

JM.