Author Topic: Paternal GGrandfather Brick Wall - DNA Testing Advice Please  (Read 431 times)

Offline Montycat

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Paternal GGrandfather Brick Wall - DNA Testing Advice Please
« on: Monday 28 September 20 11:48 BST (UK) »
Hello

This is my first post on RC so please be gentle with me!

I am a genealogy beginner and have started a tree on Ancestry.

I have also undergone a DNA test (a gift) via 23andMe (also uploaded elsewhere) and have made contact with a few lovely people, mostly on my mother's side.

The brick wall is on my paternal grandfather's side.  His father was unknown.  Our surname was my great grandmother's maiden surname. 

My great grandmother was born in 1894 in Ayrshire, Scotland.  She had 6 children. They appear to have 3 different middle names between them – names which I haven’t found elsewhere in our family tree as yet.  One of her daughters had a different surname – I found her father as he is named on the register.  He sadly died in WW1 a few years before my grandfather was born.  His surname is one of the other children’s middle name.
 
My great grandmother never married and died in 1939.

Her last two children were boys, one of whom sadly died aged one (I am ordering his birth certificate).  The other one was my grandfather.  Both boys were given the same middle name.  My grandfather’s birth certificate showed no details for the father. I have done a little sleuthing in the 1911 census to see whether there was a local family by this name and have found one, but this, of course, doesn't really tell me anything and also the middle name might not necessarily be the father's surname anyway.
 
I recall I did also check whether any claim had been made with regards to paternity, but could not find anything.

(I also found during my sleuthing that the family I mentioned above was related to the family of the young soldier who died in WW1).

My question, therefore, is what would be the best way of progressing with this brick wall?

My father would love to know more about this side of his family.  I am wondering whether he should take a DNA test like me at 23andMe?  Or should he test at Ancestry to widen the net?  Or should he take a Y-DNA test?  Obviously, with any of these, it is always the luck of the draw as to which relatives (if any) might have taken a test, but I would be very grateful for any ideas.  We cannot, at this stage, afford more than one test.

I am not sure where to begin with my own DNA results.  The very word 'triangulation' makes my head spin!   

I haven't provided any names at the moment, as it is more a general 'pointing in the right direction' I need at present, though I could well need more help soon.  I will definitely be back anyway as I have plenty of questions on other lines, too!

Sorry for waffling on.  I would be very grateful for your advice.  Many thanks, in advance, for any help.

Offline Janethepain

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Re: Paternal GGrandfather Brick Wall - DNA Testing Advice Please
« Reply #1 on: Monday 28 September 20 16:57 BST (UK) »
My first question would be, where about are you based?? If it was Scotland, I would suggest that you or someone like me could check that birth certificate, at Scotlands People Centre in Edinburgh  ( and other places) - though because of covid, that might be a wee while!! They have been shut since lockdown or before.  If you were somewhere further afield, then I would certainly offer to check at the first opportunity.

If your dad gets tested, I would suggest Ancestry, they have by far the biggest database, and you can then download the results, and upload to other companies, though not I think, unfortunately, 23&Me.

For more help on finding who the father(s) might be, it would be worth while checking the poorhouse records, and other local records in which poor families applied for relief, in times before the establishment of the NHS etc.  It is surprising what details families will give away, if it means the difference between getting help, or not. I live in Lanarkshire, and can check these records at local historical archives, and indeed on line I think!

I should have said above, I think an autosomal test ( at Ancestry) is your Dad's best way forward. especially if your family didnt move about too much. 

For example, my mum's 2 sides were both irish, but in scotland for a long time, staying in the one village area for >75 years.  I live quite close too. The result is that I know all the family names common in the area, and if I get an unknown match, who matches with my many known matches in that part of the family, then I can be fairly sure where they fit in. Similarly, if they have a known surname, or their tree contains known surnames from the area, to me, again I can be pretty definite that they relate via that part of the family!!  Though you need to back it up with supporting records, of course!

Hope that helps a wee bit!
Allison - Rumford Stirlingshire & Ireland
Quinn - Rumford, Glasgow, Monklands & Tyrone
Convoy - Rumford, Monklands & Tyrone
Burke - Glasgow, Clifden Galway
Duffy - Cleland Lanarkshire, Monklands, Falkirk, Ireland
Curran - Cleland, Ireland
Reynolds - Cleland, Shettleston, Tollcross, Antrim
McDermott - Cleland, Shotts, (London)Derry

Offline louisa maud

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Re: Paternal GGrandfather Brick Wall - DNA Testing Advice Please
« Reply #2 on: Monday 28 September 20 18:23 BST (UK) »
Welcome Montycat, in general we are gentle to everyone !!

Louisa Maud
Census information is Crown Copyright,
from  www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Granath Sweden and London
Garner, Marylebone Paddington  Northolt Ilford
Garner, Devon
Garner New Zealand
Maddieson
Parkinson St Pancras,
Jenkins Marylebone Paddington
Mizon/Mison/Myson Paddington
Tindal Marylebone Paddington
Tocock, (name changed to Ellis) London
Southam Marylebone, Paddington
Bragg Lambeth 1800's
Edermaniger(Maniger) Essex Kent Canada (Toronto)
Coveney Kent Lambeth
Sondes kent and London

Offline Montycat

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Re: Paternal GGrandfather Brick Wall - DNA Testing Advice Please
« Reply #3 on: Monday 28 September 20 20:53 BST (UK) »
My first question would be, where about are you based?? If it was Scotland, I would suggest that you or someone like me could check that birth certificate, at Scotlands People Centre in Edinburgh  ( and other places) - though because of covid, that might be a wee while!! They have been shut since lockdown or before.  If you were somewhere further afield, then I would certainly offer to check at the first opportunity.

If your dad gets tested, I would suggest Ancestry, they have by far the biggest database, and you can then download the results, and upload to other companies, though not I think, unfortunately, 23&Me.

For more help on finding who the father(s) might be, it would be worth while checking the poorhouse records, and other local records in which poor families applied for relief, in times before the establishment of the NHS etc.  It is surprising what details families will give away, if it means the difference between getting help, or not. I live in Lanarkshire, and can check these records at local historical archives, and indeed on line I think!

I should have said above, I think an autosomal test ( at Ancestry) is your Dad's best way forward. especially if your family didnt move about too much. 

For example, my mum's 2 sides were both irish, but in scotland for a long time, staying in the one village area for >75 years.  I live quite close too. The result is that I know all the family names common in the area, and if I get an unknown match, who matches with my many known matches in that part of the family, then I can be fairly sure where they fit in. Similarly, if they have a known surname, or their tree contains known surnames from the area, to me, again I can be pretty definite that they relate via that part of the family!!  Though you need to back it up with supporting records, of course!

Hope that helps a wee bit!
[/quote

(Apologies if I am using the wrong method for replying!  Just finding my way around the site)


Thank you so, so much for your very thoughtful and helpful reply.  I really appreciate it.

I am in Newcastle upon Tyne, so not a huge distance, but as you say, it might be a while before places open up again. 

I think I have been leaning towards an Ancestry test for my dad, due to the larger database as you say, so thank you for your thoughts.

Checking the poor relief records is a very good idea, thank you.  I will try to have a look online and might have to come back to you for a few pointers if I get stuck as to the best places to check, if that's ok?

Thank you again, you've been so helpful.

Monty



Offline Montycat

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Re: Paternal GGrandfather Brick Wall - DNA Testing Advice Please
« Reply #4 on: Monday 28 September 20 20:59 BST (UK) »
Welcome Montycat, in general we are gentle to everyone !!

Louisa Maud


Again, apologies if I am replying wrongly - I'll get there eventually!

Thank you very much for the welcome, Louisa Maud.

Incidentally, I might need to come back to you at some point as one of your surname/location interests matches one of mine on my mother's side!

Many thanks again,

Monty

Offline louisa maud

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Re: Paternal GGrandfather Brick Wall - DNA Testing Advice Please
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 29 September 20 21:38 BST (UK) »
OK, feel free to contact me, I will be interested

Louisa Maud
Census information is Crown Copyright,
from  www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Granath Sweden and London
Garner, Marylebone Paddington  Northolt Ilford
Garner, Devon
Garner New Zealand
Maddieson
Parkinson St Pancras,
Jenkins Marylebone Paddington
Mizon/Mison/Myson Paddington
Tindal Marylebone Paddington
Tocock, (name changed to Ellis) London
Southam Marylebone, Paddington
Bragg Lambeth 1800's
Edermaniger(Maniger) Essex Kent Canada (Toronto)
Coveney Kent Lambeth
Sondes kent and London