Advice dealing with a dead-end - Looking for birth of maternal grandmother

[guest189040]

Welcome.

Even if you had all the paper evidence by your writings and family gossip it sounds very much like she was the daughter of the what were thought if as one of her siblings.

This practice continued to be rife, especially in Ireland and as of the late eighties we were at a 25th wedding anniversary party of an Irish family but we knew that the person celebrating their anniversary was not the Sister of my Wife’s friend but the daughter she had had five years before her marriage.  All the family were in on the deception and on my Wife’s friends birth cert what were her Grandparents were listed as Parents.

There again sometimes family stories are incorrect, my Wife always thought that one of her Great Grandparents was from Roscommon in Ireland but 10 years of family searching the nearest we have is the Great Grandmother (born Manchester to Mancunian parents) was married to an Irish guy who died and she married my Wife’s Great Grandfather a few months later.

[heywood]

Just for the record
Eileen Boylan’s marriage
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1937/08909/5222272.pdf

[heywood]

Margaret’s marriage
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1938/08889/5215054.pdf

Who witnessed Jean’s marriage in Dublin?  Sorry, just read that you only have it from thr indexes.

[heywood]

I think it is likely she was baptised - she was religious throughout her life (RC) but then again, I wasn't sure whether any possibly 'difficult' context of her birth would have affected/prevented this without her knowing - I am currently trying to find out whether any family members know for certain that she had a baptism cert.

You could try contacting the church to check for a baptism record. Responses vary but you never know. Both Margaret and Eileen married at St Agatha’s.

[shauniibd]

Jane is the more common form of the name in Ireland than Jean or perhaps her birth was registered originally with another Christian name or even without a name having been chosen.

This did cross my mind - whether Jane/Jean could have been used interchangeably, or could have caused confusion when registering i.e. could have been registered Jane although the parents chose the name Jean (I've heard many tales of new fathers wondering off to register their children and spelling names wrong and all sorts!  ) This didn't seem to bring anything up at my initial search, but something I should definitely revisit with fresh eyes.

Even if you had all the paper evidence by your writings and family gossip it sounds very much like she was the daughter of the what were thought if as one of her siblings.

I'm glad you agree with my hunch! Having discovered that her assumed 'father' passed well before her birth, thanks to @heywood, this seems even more likely. I also remember Jean to be an avid Watford City Football Club fan (UK) and it seemed no-one knew why our typical elderly Irish relative was so passionate about the club. So I went out on a limb and even checked Watford, and Hertfordshire more generally for any "Jean"s born 1928, but nothing.

Margaret’s marriage
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1938/08889/5215054.pdf

Ah! I found Eileen's marriage cert but not Margaret's! Yes it definitely seems that St. Agatha's could have been the family church, as we know at least two of the sisters married there.

Annie married a Joe Herron, but I don't know when. I wonder if they were married there, too.

You could try contacting the church to check for a baptism record. Responses vary but you never know. Both Margaret and Eileen married at St Agatha’s.

I have read of people contacting churches but was unsure if inquiries like this are usual practise/is well received from churches...but if it is a "done" thing, then I don't suppose there's much harm in a polite request!

[heywood]

If Jean is the child of one of the girls, you have names, an address and and Jean’s date of birth.
As you say, a polite request with some explanation, might give a result. I hope so.
If this is the correct church, there is an email address and a notice about Family History.
http://www.stagathasparish.ie/

[Ladyhawk]

One of the sisters - Mary Catherine Boylan - was unknown by my grandmother, and so she may have continued to live and emigrate, but I suspect she may have died as a child but haven't been able to evidence this...unless she is part of this story, and became estranged for one reason or another...

Do you know Mary Catherine’s date of birth?

Could she have married?

Patrick Thomas Devine
Date of Registration:   Oct-Nov-Dec, 1934
Registration District:   Dublin North, Ireland
Volume:   2
Page Number:   328
FHL Film Number:   101577
Mary Boylan

her burial 2002 Mary Boylan Divine has middle name Catherine born 5th August 1909

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/157368145/mary-catherine-devine

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/98609459/patrick-thomas-devine

[aghadowey]

Mary Catherine Boylan born 5 Aug.1909 but wrong parents-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1909/01603/1643888.pdf

[heywood]

I wondered if Catherine was a witness to Eileen’s marriage.
Here it is again
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1937/08909/5222272.pdf