Unattributed children in Glasgow - whose exactly were they?

[avm228]

This may be an impossible quest, but I would very much like to identify the parents of two children who became part of my M(a)cGregor family in Glasgow in the 1850s.

They are:

(1) Alfred McArthur/MacGregor, c1844-?. Born in Saltcoats, per 1871 & 1881 census entries.

(2) Margaret Rasley/MacGregor, later Morrison, 1850-1883. Born in Glasgow.

They appear to have been brought by Caroline Jamieson c1821-1908 (how was she related to them?) into her marriage to my ggg-grandfather John Lindsay MacGregor in 1854.

Another constant person is Margaret Campbell otherwise Crawford (bc1805-1811), who may be Caroline’s maternal aunt. Caroline’s parents, according to her death certificate, were John Jamieson and Jean m.s. Campbell. I know nothing more about Caroline’s birth family.

Chronology as follows:

1841 census: Jane McIntyre 55, Margret Campbell 30 and Caroline Jamieson 15 are in Main St, Glasgow.

1851 census: Margaret Crawford 40, Caroline Jamieson 27 (niece), Alfred McArthur 7 (nephew) and Margaret Rasley 7mo (niece) are at 7 Main St, Glasgow.

1854 (April): Caroline Jamieson marries John Lindsay MacGregor in Glasgow.

1861: The MacGregors are at 103 Main St Glasgow with children of the marriage. Also there are Mrs Crawford 53, Alfred Mccarther 16 “relative” and Margaret McGregor “daughter”, 10.

1871: Mrs (Caroline) McGregor (abandoned by John) is at 103A Main St, Glasgow with children including Alfred McGregor 25 “boarder” and Margaret McGregor 18 “daughter”.

1876: Margaret McGregor marries Andrew Morrison in Kelvin, Glasgow, naming parents as John McGregor, surgeon, and Mary McGregor m.s. Crawford.

1881: “Carolin” McGregor is staying with the Morrisons as “boarder”. Alfred A McGregor (33, lithographic printer) is at 103 Main St, Glasgow with two of his quasi-siblings, children of the MacGregor marriage.

1883: Margaret Morrison (formerly Rasley/MacGregor) dies. Parents named on death cert as Alfred McGregor, doctor, and Caroline McGregor m.s. Campbell. (Her husband was the informant).

Alfred McArthur/MacGregor is untraced after this. I’d welcome any ideas on identifying the parentage of these two mystery children.

[Creasegirl]

Could the margaret Campbell aged 30 in 1841 be the margaret crawford in 1851.  Also could caroline jamieson maybe the mother of alfred macarthur and margaret rasley. 

[ev]

Not sure if you have looked at this -
SP has a death for a Caroline Jamieson(other surname MacGregor) , age 87 , 1908 Dennistoun Lanark.


ev

[avm228]

Hi - many thanks for the replies.

Yes, I am as sure as I can be that Margaret Campbell is the same person as Margaret Crawford, though I have not traced a suitable marriage for her.

Caroline MacGregor née Jamieson did indeed die in 1908. She had been abandoned by her husband John Lindsay MacGregor in 1869 when he married Mary Currie Barnes (bigamously) in Dundee and emigrated to the US with her, never to return. I am descended from their American family, not from the family he had with Caroline.

I have considered whether Caroline might have been the mother of Alfred and/or Margaret. Alfred doesn’t seem to have been regarded as a son of the family, but a “relative”. Margaret does seem to have been treated more or less as a daughter - but if she was Caroline’s daughter, why name her mother as “Mary Crawford” when she married? Why was she enumerated as Margaret “Rasley” as an infant in 1851? It is a bit unclear, but I think that is what it says.

Lots of questions! Thanks for engaging with this puzzle.

[brigidmac]

Have any of their  relatives done DNA it may expose parentage

I always advise looking at baptisms sometimes reveals burth fathers namev

[avm228]

Have any of their  relatives done DNA it may expose parentage

I always advise looking at baptisms sometimes reveals burth fathers namev

Yes, I really wish there were baptisms to be found for the children, but no luck yet.

Many years ago (before genealogical DNA testing was available) I was in touch with a descendant of Margaret Rasley/MacGregor who was very invested in having MacGregor ancestry (had bought the clan tartan etc). He was less than pleased when I raised doubts about whether John MacGregor was Margaret’s natural father. We are no longer in touch, but I agree it would be great if we could make headway with DNA. I have lots of distant Scottish cousins on AncestryDNA, but most haven’t linked their trees unfortunately!

[brigidmac]

Even if they had linked trees if there was a non parental event your McGregor s would not show

I suppose youve tried searching the names without the Mc attached

[avm228]

Yes - I don’t have any difficulty with the legitimate MacGregors, and have DNA confirmation of those lines. It’s just these two children, probably relatives of Caroline Jamieson, who are so tricky. And since I am not genetically related to Caroline Jamieson, I’m probably not genetically related to the children either! Ah well. Perhaps something will turn up