Thomas Herbert Collin and Florence Bell - HELP!!

[charleighcollin]

If you think it is the correct family for Florence, there are some trees which seem to list her parents. However, they don't appear to have the right mother.

A person matching Catherine Ann Sharp(e) was registered in Lincoln:-
SHARP, CATHARINE ANN mmn GUNTHORP 
GRO Reference: 1860  M Quarter in LINCOLN  Volume 07A  Page 460

All of the other children are registered with the same mother - GUNTHORP OR GUNTHORPE

Elizabeth Gunthorp, daughter of Joseph, a Cow Keeper, married John Sharp, a Shoemaker son of William, a Cordwainer, on 8th August 1848 at Lincoln St Martin.
Witnesses: George Gunthorp, Rebecca Sharp and George Borrows.

David

I havent seen those trees, what I have found is Florence listed with the wrong father. I'll check them out and come back to you in a few, thank you so much.

[DCB]

if you search on Catherine Sharp born in Potter Hanworth in 1860, it will list the trees - should be 10

Although some have Potter Hanworth (Potterhanworth), others have Lincoln, as does the 1861 census and those of 1871 and 1891. In 1881, she may be a servant in Surrey as Kate Sharp b Lincoln in 1860

The surname of her mother varies on the trees but, if you go through the GRO for the Sharp (no e), the  children all have Gunthorp(e)

This is the 1861 census:-
John Sharpe Head 36 1825 Shoemaker Potterhanworth, Lincolnshire
Elizabeth Sharpe Wife Married Female 35 1826 Lincoln, Lincolnshire
William Sharpe Son - Male 11 1850 - Potterhanworth, Lincolnshire
George Sharpe Son - Male 9 1852 School Potterhanworth, Lincolnshire
Rebecca Sharpe Daughter - Female 7 1854 - Potterhanworth, Lincolnshire
John Sharpe Son - Male 6 1855 School Potterhanworth, Lincolnshire
Catherine A Sharpe Daughter - Female 1 1860 - Lincoln, Lincolnshire

David

[charleighcollin]

Hi David,

I'm struggling to find Catherine Sharpe as the mother for Florence Bell, can you explain where you got your info, please?

I've got myself into a bit of a muddle again, I think!!

[Mabel Bagshawe]

It comes from following the adults JOhn and Elizabeth Savage that Florence is with in 1901 backward

James Bell marries  Catherine Sharp
James dies shortly before Florence is born
Catherine [Sharp] Bell remarries John Savage,
Catherine (now Savage) dies
John Savage remarries Elizabeth

Orphaned Florence and brother James stay with their step father and his new wife

Just to add confirmation - the birth registration

BELL, FLORENCE        
mother' maiden name SHARP     
Q3 1892 LINCOLN  Volume 07A  Page 526

[charleighcollin]

Hiya Mabel,

I've searched for Florence Bell on the GRO and she doesn't come up with a mother's surname of Sharpe, this is why I'm looking for where the info came from.

I've found the family I think this may be referring to on a census with James Frederick, Lily and Florence, but Florence is the oldest child by 8 years. In the census with James Frederick and John Savage, James Frederick is older by 1 year!

Could it be that the name on the marriage certificate is made up? I had the theory that she gave her brother's name as father's name, and the more I hit a brick wall the more I seem to believe this  ...

Thanks for your message, this means a lot! 

[charleighcollin]

Just to add confirmation - the birth registration

BELL, FLORENCE        
mother' maiden name SHARP     
Q3 1892 LINCOLN  Volume 07A  Page 526

I spent 3 hours on the GRO yesterday and I cannot find this entry, which is really frustrating!!

Just to add: if I search without Sharp(e), the entry doesn't come up, but if I search with it, it does. I'm also drawn to an entry for Barratt in Sleaford. I'm sure she gives herself as being born in Sleaford on one of the records I have for her. Are there 2 Sleafords in the UK?

[DCB]

I have taken an image from the GRO

David

[Mabel Bagshawe]

I've found the family I think this may be referring to on a census with James Frederick, Lily and Florence, but Florence is the oldest child by 8 years. In the census with James Frederick and John Savage, James Frederick is older by 1 year!

I'm a bit confused as I don't see the same info you are reporting.

To recap from previous postings

1891: Commodore Court, Water Side North, Lincoln

James D Bell Head 35 b 1856 Iron Moulder Scotland
Catherine A Bell Wife 31 b 1860 - Lincoln
Frederick Bell Son  5 months - Lincoln (James Frederick on GRO)
Lilian J Moore Adopted Daughter 4 b 1887 - Lincoln

No Florence listed. She's not born until the next year, so a year younger than Frederick


1901: 13, Napier Street, Lincoln St Swithin

John Savage Head 41 b 1860 Bricklayer's Laborer Navenby, Lincolnshire
Elizabeth Savage Wife 50 b 1851 - Swinderby, Lincolnshire
James F Bell Son 11 b 1890 - Lincoln
Florence Bell Daughter 9 b 1892 - Lincoln

[Mabel Bagshawe]

Could it be that the name on the marriage certificate is made up? I had the theory that she gave her brother's name as father's name, and the more I hit a brick wall the more I seem to believe this  ...

You have to remember that Florence's father died before she was born, and her mother when she was still quite young, so any history of her family would have come from her step parents who might not know that much. She could have been told that her brother was named after her father (i.e. James) and assumed that meant her father was James Frederick