Author Topic: Alexander Noble - but which one?? (Re The Nobles in Fraserburgh)  (Read 3241 times)

Offline hdw

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,045
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Alexander Noble - but which one?? (Re The Nobles in Fraserburgh)
« Reply #9 on: Sunday 25 October 20 10:14 GMT (UK) »
For a fascinating account of life in Broadsea and the old fisher families there, I recommend you to read The Christian Watt Papers.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/7738124-the-christian-watt-papers

Christian's mother was a Noble and she mentions many other members of that family in her account of life there.

Harry

Offline ablanchishere

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 11
  • I hope you're having a lovely day.
    • View Profile
Re: Alexander Noble - but which one?? (Re The Nobles in Fraserburgh)
« Reply #10 on: Saturday 05 December 20 13:20 GMT (UK) »
Thanks hdw,

Apologies for the late reply, I've been having a good look around for an ebook version of the Christian Watt Papers and have had no luck. Looks like I'll have to find a paperback (hopefully someone's got a secondhand copy in Australia!). Thank you very much for the recommendation!

On another note, for those that are interested, I've since been able to narrow down the Nobles in my family tree to:

Joseph Noble (b:1868, Fraserburgh) - Mary Bella Hutcheson
Alexander Noble (b: 1846, Fraserburgh) - Ann Stephen
Andrew Noble (b: 1817, Fraserburgh) - Helen May
Alexander Noble (b: 1779, Fraserburgh) - Margaret Noble
Gilbert Noble (1745 or 1755, Fraserburgh) - Margaret Crawford


If anyone is also a descendent of Gilbert Noble & Margaret Crawford, I'd be interested to compare notes (not to be confused with the Gilberts of a similar age married to 'Ann Crawford' and 'Jane Crawford' respectively).
Scottish:
1/Maternal (Tomintoul/Kirkmichael, Knockando/Aberlour, New Pitsligo, Tyrie) - Grant alias Brown, alias McIntosh, McGregor, Cameron, Farquharson.
2/Maternal (Fraserburgh, Broadsea) - Noble, May, Masson, Stephen, Crawford, Ritchie, Gardner, Thomson, Summers.
3/Maternal (Banff, MacDuff, New Pitsligo) - Hutcheson, Hendry.
4/Maternal (Edinburgh) - Wilson.
5/Paternal (Fife) - Myles, Black, Aitken, Bennet, Younger, Latta, Paterson, Adamson.

Online Forfarian

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,824
  • http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ruz/
    • View Profile
Re: Alexander Noble - but which one?? (Re The Nobles in Fraserburgh)
« Reply #11 on: Saturday 05 December 20 17:46 GMT (UK) »
I've been having a good look around for an ebook version of the Christian Watt Papers and have had no luck. Looks like I'll have to find a paperback.
There are 31 copies for sale at www.abebooks.com at the moment.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline finallyretired

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 2
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Alexander Noble - but which one?? (Re The Nobles in Fraserburgh)
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday 08 January 25 11:22 GMT (UK) »
Hello Ablanchishere
I see your post was 4 years ago but I am new to this site and a just learner. I am interested in the Nobles you are referring to and I stumbled upon your post by searching for Alexander Noble.

The Alexander Noble born 1846 married to Ann Stephen are my GG grandparents.  I have a photo of them and their family.  Your GG-grandparents Joseph Noble and Mary Bella Hutcheson are both in the photo.  I would assume they were married at the time so after 1894. My great-grandmother Margaret was Joseph's sister, she is also in the photo.

Do you have any photos of them?

I am in NSW Australia. 



Offline ablanchishere

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 11
  • I hope you're having a lovely day.
    • View Profile
Re: Alexander Noble - but which one?? (Re The Nobles in Fraserburgh)
« Reply #13 on: Friday 07 February 25 04:27 GMT (UK) »
Hello Ablanchishere
I see your post was 4 years ago but I am new to this site and a just learner. I am interested in the Nobles you are referring to and I stumbled upon your post by searching for Alexander Noble.

The Alexander Noble born 1846 married to Ann Stephen are my GG grandparents.  I have a photo of them and their family.  Your GG-grandparents Joseph Noble and Mary Bella Hutcheson are both in the photo.  I would assume they were married at the time so after 1894. My great-grandmother Margaret was Joseph's sister, she is also in the photo.

Do you have any photos of them?

I am in NSW Australia.

Hello,

I apologise for taking a while to respond - I do check in on this site periodically to see what updates there might be and am always excited to see new responses! 

My great grandmother, Mary Noble, daughter of Mary Bella Hutcheson, did have different ephemera and photos that she brought with her when her family migrated to Australia (WA for us!).

I wonder if the photo you have was taken at a similar time to the one I've attached below (at least I think I have!) which has Alexander Noble & Ann Stephen, Joseph Noble & Mary Bella Hutcheson, Robert Prahm Noble and a couple of other siblings of Joseph Noble I believe, c. 1890s.

My research isn't fully collated and I am often sick so I don't always respond as promptly as I should, however, feel free to reach out via private message and I can ask relatives what other photos of the family we have, if you are trying to put faces to relatives.

I think I also have a good lead on the primary research question of this post - that is, which Alexander Noble is he (the grandfather of the Alexander who married Ann Stephen) - but still need to cross-reference a few things before I post an update here for anyone following this branch of the Fraserburgh/Broadsea Nobles.
Scottish:
1/Maternal (Tomintoul/Kirkmichael, Knockando/Aberlour, New Pitsligo, Tyrie) - Grant alias Brown, alias McIntosh, McGregor, Cameron, Farquharson.
2/Maternal (Fraserburgh, Broadsea) - Noble, May, Masson, Stephen, Crawford, Ritchie, Gardner, Thomson, Summers.
3/Maternal (Banff, MacDuff, New Pitsligo) - Hutcheson, Hendry.
4/Maternal (Edinburgh) - Wilson.
5/Paternal (Fife) - Myles, Black, Aitken, Bennet, Younger, Latta, Paterson, Adamson.

Offline finallyretired

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 2
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Alexander Noble - but which one?? (Re The Nobles in Fraserburgh)
« Reply #14 on: Saturday 08 February 25 09:13 GMT (UK) »
Thanks so much for your reply.   That is the same photo that I have! It is the only photo I have of any of those people.
The woman on the fair right with the fair hair is my Great Grandmother, Margaret, born 1874. 
Alexander and Ann are seated. The boy between them is Robert Prahm born 1883. Joseph, born 1868, is standing behind Ann. Mary Bella (Joseph’s wife) is standing behind Alexander. 
On the photo I have, someone has written that the lad between Joseph and Mary Bella is Andrew and the other lad is unknown.  Andrew was born in 1878.  There is also a son named William born in 1876 and another son Alexander born 1872.  I don’t know if the unnamed lad is William and that Alexander was not there for the photo?
There were two other daughters born, one called Ann born 1870 died 1878 and another called Ann Mary Helen born 1881 died 1882.
If you have any further and/or different information about the photo I would be thrilled to receive it

Offline Mjsnoble79

  • RootsChat Pioneer
  • *
  • Posts: 1
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Alexander Noble - but which one?? (Re The Nobles in Fraserburgh)
« Reply #15 on: Saturday 12 April 25 13:12 BST (UK) »
My great grandfather Donald Noble (1861-1942) and great grandmother Helen lynn Melville (1888-1972) lived in Inverness and as far as I know the Noble line have lived in Inverness.   However I had noticed on through lines on ancestry I noticed some relatives in Australia had linked them  back to an Andrew noble born in 1740 in Fraserburgh.   I was wondering if there is a  connection to the broadsea Fraserburgh Noble family?

Online Forfarian

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 15,824
  • http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ruz/
    • View Profile
Re: Alexander Noble - but which one?? (Re The Nobles in Fraserburgh)
« Reply #16 on: Sunday 13 April 25 16:25 BST (UK) »
My great grandfather Donald Noble (1861-1942) and great grandmother Helen lynn Melville (1888-1972) lived in Inverness and as far as I know the Noble line have lived in Inverness.   However I had noticed on through lines on ancestry I noticed some relatives in Australia had linked them  back to an Andrew noble born in 1740 in Fraserburgh.   I was wondering if there is a  connection to the broadsea Fraserburgh Noble family?
Never trust anything you find online, and especially on commercial web sites like Ancestry, unless it's an image of an original document, and even then be wary of errors in the original.

When you find a tree online, it is always necessary to check its contents by looking at the original documents, because there are many trees out there that are a mixture or errors, guesswork, assumptions and fantasy.

From the indexes to the original records at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk Donald Noble married Helen Kirk Lynn Melville in Inverness in 1916. If Donald was born in 1861, he would have been 55 in 1916, which is quite old for a first marriage. Have you got a copy of the marriage certificate? It will confirm Donald's age and tell you the names of his parents including his mother's maiden surname.

There is a birth of a Donald Melville Noble there in 1917, and an Ian William Noble in 1925. Donald Melville Noble, aged 67, died in Inverness in 1984. All three of these have mother's surname listed as Melville.

Donald Noble, aged 60, died in Inverness in 1942 aged 60. If this age is accurate he would have been born in 1881/1882. Do you have a copy of the death certificate to confirm his age, the name of his wife and the names of his parents?

There is a birth of a Donald Noble, mother's surname Stephen, in Inverness in 1881. There are also births of Jane in 1875, Alexander in 1877 and Isabella in 1879 in Inverness, mother Stephen.

In the 1891 census in Inverness are Donald Noble, 50, born Daviot, Inverness-shire; wife Jane, 42; children Jane M, 15; Isabella, 12 and Donald, 9; and James Stephen, boarder, aged 40, all born in Inverness. So I reckon that this is the Donald Noble who died in 1942 aged 60, assuming that his age in the index is correct.

The 1881 confirms Jane's surname; it lists Donald Noble, 42, born Boleskine, Inverness-shire, wife Jane Stephen, 35; daughter Jane, 6; daughter Isabella, 2; and brother-in-law James Stephen, 32; all born in Inverness.

Donald Noble and James Stephen are both listed as house painters in 1881 and 1891.

In 1871 Donald Noble, house painter, 31, born Dores, Inverness-shire is with his widowed mother Isabella, 56, born Daviot.

In 1861 Isabella Noble, widow, born Daviot, is in Inverness with sons Donald, 19, painter; Allan, 14; and Andrew, 12.

In 1851 in Inverness are Isabella, widow, 37, born Daviot; and children Donald, 11; David, 8; Margaret, 6; Allan, 4; Andrew, 2.

And in 1841, at Tullich, Daviot, are Alexander Noble, 30, agricultural labourer; Isabella, 28; John, 4; and Donald, 2; all born in Inverness-shire.

These match the sons of Alexander Noble and Isabella Kennedy: John, baptised 30 April 1837 and Donald, baptised 5 May 1839, both in Dores. Alexander and Isabella were married in Dores on 27 January 1836.

The fact that Isabella was a widow by 1851 means that Alexander died before the introduction of statutory civil registration in 1855, so there is no death certificate to confirm the names of his parents. His age is given as 30, but adults' ages were supposed to be rounded down to the nearest 5 years in the 1841 census, so he could have been any age from 30 to 34, and hence born any time between 8 June 1906 and 7 June 1811 (because the 1841 census was taken on 7 June 1841).

There are 4 surviving records of baptisms of Alexander Nobles in Inverness-shire between 1806 and 1811; there could be others whose baptism records have not survived. So the trail goes cold at this point.

There are 64 surviving records of births/baptisms of Nobles with mother's surname Stephen in Fraserburgh, so it would be very easy to jump wrongly to the conclusion that the four Noble/Stephen births in Inverness are connected to Fraserburgh, when in fact there is not a shred of evidence so far to support that.





Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.