Looking for the origins of Cicely Ramsden Charteris, later Fidler, later Winson

[avm228]

With DNA matches showing me as related to descendants of Cicely, I am trying to work out the link.

Here’s her story as I know it.

1902 (12 Mar): “Sicley” Ramsden Charteris born at Grange Terrace, Totley, Dore, to Morris Vane Charteris (compositor) and Annie Charteris formerly Ramsden. Registered by Annie on 18 April, same address.

1924: Cicely Fidler marries Samuel Winson, Derby RD. (Why “Fidler” is unknown - marriage cert awaited).

1939 Register: She is Cicely (or Cecily) Winson b 12 Mar 1902 - with husband and family in Belper.

1985: Cicely Ramsden Winson dies in Mickleover, Derbyshire - birthdate recorded as 12 Mar 1902.

Questions re her parents:

Morris Vane Charteris, compositor - does he exist? Might he be the same person as, or otherwise connected with, Henry Vane Charteris b 1857 (clerk) who was married with a family in Sheffield in 1901? Henry seems to have been born Edward Reardon or Riordan in Ireland or India or Kent, according to online trees.

Annie Ramsden - who was she? Her Yorkshire surname makes her my most likely DNA link, though I don’t currently have any likely Ramsdens in my tree.

I’d appreciate any help in finding Cicely or her parents before her 1924 marriage

[PaulineJ]

National School Admission Registers & Log-Books 1870-1914

Has cissy fidler 12 mar 1902 entering clay cross school in 1910  Parent charles Fidler


Address something like Thornygale Holmgate Road?

[avm228]

National School Admission Registers & Log-Books 1870-1914

Has cissy fidler 12 mar 1902 entering clay cross school in 1910  Parent charles Fidler


Address something like Thornygale Road?

Thanks - that’s brilliant. With that I have now found the adoptive family in 1911:

Holmgate, Clay Cross

Charles Fidler 42 b Lincoln railway signalman
Miriam Fidler 41 b Nottingham married 20 yrs no children
Cissie Fidler adopted daughter 9 b Totley Derbyshire (“adopted” is struck through) <<<
Walter Fidler nephew 4 b Nottingham

[avm228]

I have now managed to find the inhabitants of Grange Terrace, Totley in 1901 (e.g. Isaac Kidd at RG13/4346/48/28) but unfortunately there is nobody promising there - no Ramsden, no Charteris.

[PaulineJ]

There's this chap:
Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1893

CHARTERIS   Vane    wed FOREMAN   Minnie Isabel Bedford   1893   Preston Register Office or Registrar Attended   Preston   PRESTON/98/184

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1895
CHARTERIS   March Kesteven   FOREMAN   1895   Trinity   Preston   TR/45/65

CHARTERIS, VERNEY  HURST RENE FITZHAMON    MMN: FOREMAN 
GRO Reference: 1896  D Quarter in ECCLESALL BIERLOW  Volume 09C  Page 460

1901 census (Hastings, Sussex) https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSN1-G99
1911 for Minnie (Canterbury, Kent) https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWD1-5S1

[amondg]

Henry Vane Charteris married Annie Moore registered Armagh Ireland 1882

He was in the Military received medals for 1877-1879 with the 94th Regiment South Africa part of the 65th Brigade.

He was discharged age 41, 24 January 1899 a Quarter Master Sergeant / Connaught Rangers.

*If someone has access to Fold3 on ancestry you could get his military record.

From 1901 census his eldest children Henry B (17 October 1887) and Edna M (15 May 1889) were born in India so he may not have been in England for the 1891 census.
He was then transferred to Portsea Hampshire where next child Noel (1896) was born, then to Sheffield Yorkshire where Percival was born. Possibly went to visit family after his discharge where son Wilfred was born, then back to Yorkshire for daughter Dora M.   

[avm228]

Thanks both - all very interesting.

Vane Charteris who married Minnie doesn’t seem to exist before marriage, so far as I can see. I wonder whether he is a son of Henry Vane Charteris (though the dates would make Henry a very young father). Vane’s son Verney’s birth in Ecclesall Bierlow puts this family close to the area of interest for Cicely’s birth.

Vane’s 1901 occupation of advertisement manager is tolerably close to “compositor” - at least with a print industry connection. He’s recorded as 26 b Lincoln in 1901, so born abt 1875.

He and Minnie had an elaborate naming style - the children I can find are:

1895: March Kesteven Charteris (died in infancy)
1896: Verney Hurst Rene Fitzhamon Charteris
1903: Isabel Mignon Yvette Yvonne Charteris
1905: Corisande Dorathea Valda Margaret Charteris

...and is Vane Ferrers Chichele Chester de Chartres (b 1902 Hastings, mmn Paynter) perhaps also linked?

In 1911 Minnie claims to have had 6 children to the marriage, of whom 3 have died and 3 survived.

[amondg]

Notes
1908 the whole family moves to Australia

Found 2 more children of Henry Charteris

Charles Moore Charteris born 7 November 1884 Barcilly India

Victor Henry born 7 June 1886 Jallunder India

Henry 1887 also born Jallunder India, Edna was born Darjeeling India

ADDED
It would be interesting to see the names of his parents on Henry' death certificate.
 

[avm228]

I see that a Vane de Chartrés [sic] is listed as a dealer in antiquities in a 1909 Rye, Sussex directory.

Address: Tower St.